tow hooks

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wileec

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Yes the Bronco is a tank but in the case of serious accident I would rather the truck absorb more of the energy instead of transferring it to me and my family. For you it does not matter because your truck has no crumple zone.

Seems like a lot of extra work when there are plenty of good tow hook/clevis ideas out there. But to each his own.

 

miesk5

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yo,

As in eaveryday life; to each, his own.

As I wrote and I agree w/wileec... "... doesn't a piece of anything solid like tow points, sticking out in front of the c zone and attached behind the c zone defeating the purpose of the c zone's design intent? ..."

I have a Police/Military style Push Bumper on the 96 and it is SRS Safe since it Mounts to da front bumper; it's good enuf to push vehicle wen stuck in snow or disbaled, but not, say bang em out of a mud hole. It was purposely designed for the Police & Mil to Not interfere w/the SRS/crumple Zone and air bag sensors (front).

 
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joshmccln

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well no doubt i see what your getting at there but there has got to be some way to be able to hook up and get snatched a little without breakin stuff i mean im not talkin about someone doing 30 but a good 15-20mph ****** idk just hesatent about doing somthing that ends up failing or looks terriable but through a pic of that bull bar up sounds awesome....that is if u dont mind

 

miesk5

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yo,

Here is da Setina PB100 push bar I have on the 96;

http://www.setina.com/bumpers.php

Note their; do not interfere with SRS

I'll have to restore my pics in SuperMotors to show it on the Bronco.

As for the tow hooks on crumple zones, our local 4x4 shop owner won't do it for anyone due to possible damage.

Aftermarket suppliers for winches and bumper mounted stuff such as Warn have a disclaimer about safety, incl affects on the SRS and crumple zone. they claim they test a lot of vehicles, but not all; they say ask your manufacturer.

nonetheless, many 4x4 owners do it and haven't stated a problem with the c zone being damaged; nor the radiator/fan/auto tranny lines, etc.

Here is one excerpt on da C Zone and tow hooks;

"...Caution:

• Some later model 4 x 4s will have a crumple zone in the front chassis rails.

• The hooks or plates should not be installed over the crumple zone.

• If there is not a factory mounted hook or mounting point, you should seek

professional assistance on mounting tow hooks in accordance with these

Standards.

• Note that factory mounted

http://www.off-road.com/trucks4x4/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=198406

 

miesk5

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I entered my reply accidentally - again! lol

and I mesed-up on that quote with wrong URL

so; here is an excerpt from Ford's 2002 Towing Manual; all pre years are gone due to Ford's updating process.

"...FRONT TOWING CONNECTIONS

CAUTION: Do not tow with J-hooks under any circumstances. J-hooks will damage driveline and suspension components.

CAUTION: If equipped with air suspension, the air suspension control must be turned to the OFF position.

CAUTION: It is recommended that the Sport-Trac (4x2) (4x4) be towed with a wheel lift or flatbed equipment.

Do not tow with a slingbelt. Ford Motor Company has not approved a slingbelt towing procedure.

NOTE: Refer to general towing information on pages 26 through 29 before towing vehicle. NOTE: On a 4x2 vehicle, it is acceptable to tow the vehicle with the front wheels on the ground (without dollies) and

the rear wheels off the ground. NOTE: On a 4x4 vehicle, it is recommended that the vehicle be towed with a wheel lift or flatbed equipment with all the wheels off the ground. If the vehicle is towed by other means or incorrectly,

vehicle damage may occur...

Note how they avoid the C Zone issue now.

http://www.motorcraftservice.com/vdirs/quickref/RTS2002TowingManual.pdf

and new vehicles have both front and rear C zones!

 
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joshmccln

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ha yea that kinda makes me mad with them not saying anything about the c zone im going to call out to ford tomorrow and see what they got to say on it but that push bar looks pretty good i like the 400 on that site as well have you tested it before???

 

AdamDude04

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Yes the Bronco is a tank but in the case of serious accident I would rather the truck absorb more of the energy instead of transferring it to me and my family. For you it does not matter because your truck has no crumple zone.

Seems like a lot of extra work when there are plenty of good tow hook/clevis ideas out there. But to each his own.
Yeah each to their own.. I took my back seat out of my truck and it'll never be the "family" vehicle anyway. And yes, I don't have the crumple zone so idealy, less damage but yes more force transferd to myself and passanger if any.

Ideas are good though.. puts an idea in someones head, they tweek it or modify it, and make it work for them for whatever their striving for. Reason forums are so great!!

 

wileec

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I entered my reply accidentally - again! lol

and I mesed-up on that quote with wrong URL

so; here is an excerpt from Ford's 2002 Towing Manual; all pre years are gone due to Ford's updating process.

"...FRONT TOWING CONNECTIONS

CAUTION: Do not tow with J-hooks under any circumstances. J-hooks will damage driveline and suspension components.

CAUTION: If equipped with air suspension, the air suspension control must be turned to the OFF position.

CAUTION: It is recommended that the Sport-Trac (4x2) (4x4) be towed with a wheel lift or flatbed equipment.

Do not tow with a slingbelt. Ford Motor Company has not approved a slingbelt towing procedure.

NOTE: Refer to general towing information on pages 26 through 29 before towing vehicle. NOTE: On a 4x2 vehicle, it is acceptable to tow the vehicle with the front wheels on the ground (without dollies) and

the rear wheels off the ground. NOTE: On a 4x4 vehicle, it is recommended that the vehicle be towed with a wheel lift or flatbed equipment with all the wheels off the ground. If the vehicle is towed by other means or incorrectly,

vehicle damage may occur...

Note how they avoid the C Zone issue now.

http://www.motorcraftservice.com/vdirs/quickref/RTS2002TowingManual.pdf

and new vehicles have both front and rear C zones!
Seems like most of that information is for "wrecker" towing not getting unstuck towing, except for the J hooks. Still good information though.

 

AdamDude04

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Hey guys..what about this.. a tow hitch but for the front of the truck. Don't they make those, and arn't those just as good as a tow hitch on the back? This would also put a straight line pressure on both sides of the frame with much harder resistance tweeking/bending the frame as a whole.

Also with my new truck, I was helping my bud pull out his 7k lbs truck that was stuck in a snow drift, in a ditch. I learned a week later that apparently you can't tow/****** in reverse in 4WD due to possible damage to the transfer case? I never had an issue with my truck and I've pulled upwords of 9k lbs not to forget the sudden ****** force in lbs via front factory hooks on my truck in reverse in both 4wd (for traction reasons) and 2wd without an issue.

What's your guys thoughts on this issue?

 

miesk5

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Yeah each to their own.. I took my back seat out of my truck and it'll never be the "family" vehicle anyway. And yes, I don't have the crumple zone so idealy, less damage but yes more force transferd to myself and passanger if any.

Ideas are good though.. puts an idea in someones head, they tweek it or modify it, and make it work for them for whatever their striving for. Reason forums are so great!!
The 89 Bronco does not have the crumple zone.

 

miesk5

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Seems like most of that information is for "wrecker" towing not getting unstuck towing, except for the J hooks. Still good information though.
yo!

Yep for wreckers, but think of how much more stress a ****** n' pull is compared to a wrecker tow?

Someday, I'll find the wrecker site where they disclaim any responsibility for ****** & pulling a crumple zone "built" vehicle

 

miesk5

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ha yea that kinda makes me mad with them not saying anything about the c zone im going to call out to ford tomorrow and see what they got to say on it but that push bar looks pretty good i like the 400 on that site as well have you tested it before???
Josh, I've pushed 3 cars that were stuck in snow so far. 2 cars were @ an air base and were wheel spinnin' on asphalt and the other was spinning on sand. I did Not bump n run push em.. just moved close & crept onto them and slowly applies the push bumper to their rear bumper/ plastic bumper cover.

I don't think the 400 model will fit; give em a call.

for used; check local Police/Fire/etc for used veh sales.

 
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joshmccln

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yea i would not expect them to handle much of a bump n run but all i was lookin for was a easy slow push....and bronco **** that front reciever would be great but ill have to look around on how they do with snatching because a winch pull and a ****** aint the same obviously but if it works as good as the rear ones he!! yea thanks for the link too

 
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joshmccln

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well bronco **** just found out that the front receiver mounts to the plate that the sway bar attaches to so im not sure it could handle any snatching i guess you could mount to the frame but it would be a pain having it that far under

wileec i have seen that same set up quite a few times now with that flat bar and shackles just wondering what all you have put it threw and what problems its givin you (ex. air bags..etc)

 
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miesk5

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well bronco **** just found out that the front receiver mounts to the plate that the sway bar attaches to so im not sure it could handle any snatching i guess you could mount to the frame but it would be a pain having it that far under

wileec i have seen that same set up quite a few times now with that flat bar and shackles just wondering what all you have put it threw and what problems its givin you (ex. air bags..etc)
yep Josh! Warn states; "K Except models with far forward mounted stabilizer bar."

Now, do you think like me; (I suspect EVERYTHANG! lol)? That Warn is dancin' round the C Zone with that statement?

Back to the C zone and what to do.... when stuck.. ask your pal again how his Bronco or truck; I forget what you wrote about that incident..sorry...how it happened. Then just decide. Call local Tow Companies that do commercial work on State Highways for their opinion.

 
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joshmccln

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yea seams everyone keeps dodging the c zone yea ill ask him again how hard he was snatched im sure it was pretty hard cause he has 44's and it was burried

 

wileec

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well bronco **** just found out that the front receiver mounts to the plate that the sway bar attaches to so im not sure it could handle any snatching i guess you could mount to the frame but it would be a pain having it that far under

wileec i have seen that same set up quite a few times now with that flat bar and shackles just wondering what all you have put it threw and what problems its givin you (ex. air bags..etc)
I have done a couple of pulls that requires double line and had no problems. I do not get stuck in mud holes (no mud in CO) so I have never had to **** it real hard. My guess is that they will not effect the airbag, I hope never to find out. Biggest issue is getting the bumper back on. It is still off I am beginning to like it that way..

 

jsomedaysoon

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hey... i'm workin with an 82 so i dont have the c zone to worry about but i will give you this little piece of info i figured out recently. i was walking through the pick n pull looking for tow hooks and in the big american trucks section i found nothing. but when i went over to the import suv section almost every single one had factory beefy tow hooks. most of them had two in the front. I got two off this one truck that actually have a ford emblem stamped on them. i dont remember what they came off but i know they were factory. then i got another one for the front but i'm thinking about geting another one so i have two in the front and two in the back. annnnyway the point of the story is that there are tons of options for cheap in the junk yard if you have access to one. i paid 5 dollars per hook. the one iput in the front of the truck just by luck lined up with existing holes. the back two i had to drill though.

 

miesk5

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ok, fouind this; here it is;

'92-96 Frame Crumple Zones

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is all my opinion based on what I've read, learned, & seen. Anyone who disagrees is welcome to post his own opinion (& any supporting documentation OR none) to this thread.

Why were the crumple zones added to F150, Bronco, & certain F250 frames in '92? Some people think it's to protect people in smaller vehicles. So why didn't the big trucks get them? They'd do more damage... Some people think it's to protect the rest of the frame. Same question - why not on the larger trucks, whose heavy cargo & larger cabs would do more to their own frames? Being more expensive vehicles, it would make MORE sense to protect them IF that was the purpose of the crumple zones.

So why, then? What else happened to these trucks & the laws governing their design around that time? There was a major body redesign, so it makes sense that any redesigns would be done together to reduce retooling costs at the factories, and to ensure that impending future mods are compatible with current designs. It was about that time that SRS airbags were becoming mandatory, and since the law specifically required them in vehicles under 8500lbs GVWR, it's reasonable to think that the crumple zone is specifically related to the airbag.

As fast as electricity & explosives are, they still take time to work. Chemical reactions take time, and the materials containing them have inertia, so an "instant" airbag isn't physically possible. A few milliseconds is pushing it, since there has to be some logic involved to prevent false deployment, so a little bit of time is essential for SRS to work right.

But too much time is obviously no good since it might allow the occupant to hit the dash/steering wheel. And if the occupant is too close to the airbag when it goes off, he could be burned, or the explosion could cause more injury than hitting the wheel/dash would have. So timing is absolutely critical.

That's why the crumple zone. It's carefully designed to absorb a specific amount of energy which would otherwise STOP the rest of the frame/cab, causing the moving occupants to hit the dash/wheel. This allows the truck's frame/cab to continue moving forward AFTER the bumper has stopped (against whatever the truck is hitting) as the zone crumples. During that time, at least one of the airbag sensors on the core support triggers, and the falsing sensor on the base of the B-pillar also triggers, completing the circuit from the battery, thru the ig.sw., thru the airbag module, thru the clock spring, to the airbag, which detonates & inflates the bag in front of the occupant.

By then, the crumple zone has done its job, and the engine/trans (the densest parts of the truck) are now pressing the frame & radiator against the obstacle, slowing down or stopping the cab/steering column/seat/seat belt. These work against the occupant, slowing down/stopping him. But since the steering wheel can't be designed to be usable AND safe to slam into at 60mph, the airbag is there to keep the occupant away from it JUST long enough for him to stop, along with the rest of the truck. The pendulum in the seat belt reel locks it momentarily, at this time, as well. The inertia switch also opens at this point, cutting power to the fuel pump(s).

After everything stops, the airbag sensors return to their normal states, and the pendulums in the seat belt reels release them (assuming the vehicle is still upright) so the occupants can get out. The airbag deflates (it's not airtight like a balloon), but the inertia switch remains off until manually reset.

So what would happen without the crumple zones? As strong as truck frames were being designed in the 70s (when the '80-96 chassis was in design), it's strong enough to stop the whole truck almost instantly from 60mph, given a solid enough obstacle. That would mean that the steering wheel would be doing 0mph while the occupant was still close to 60mph, and tension was just rising in the seat belts.

That's what happened before airbags & crumple zones. People who wore belts were still killed or seriously injured because vehicles were designed & built SO strong. A 200-lb man falling at 60mph onto a 2" wide web strap could be bruised, cut, crack ribs, or rupture internal organs - and that's what it's like when the seat belt jerks him back from 60-0 in a millisecond.

But if he's stretched the belt to its limit, and is now a few inches away from a steering wheel filled with explosives, he's in serious danger of having his head pushed over his back when the airbag deploys. That's why the crumple zone is an INTEGRAL PART of the airbag system on 1st- & some 2nd-generation airbag-equipped vehicles. They're too rigid for the airbag to get inflated before the occupant is dangerously close to it. So if the crumple zone is modified or disabled in any way (aftermarket winch bumpers, front hitch receivers, special fabrication, etc.), then the airbags can be dangerous. That's why those parts must be SPECIFICALLY designed & certified before they can be legally marketed for airbag-equipped vehicles. It's also why vehicle mfrs. specifically exclude front-end modifications from airbag warranties & occupant injury liability. Insurance companies sometimes do the same, because it's inherently dangerous to modify the system in any way, unless the design has been reviewed & certified compatible with airbags.

On most modern vehicles, while the crumple zone is still there, it's in the design from the beginning, so it's spread out & hidden more, and not usually noticeable. Just a few small carefully-distributed notches, holes, & bends in an otherwise rigid-looking frame/cab/unibody structure. But since the airbag law went into effect before Ford could redesign its entire truck line (which at that time shared 1 frame design), they had to make this obvious modification to remain in compliance on the lighter trucks. Now, trucks over 8500GVWR (the SuperDuty line) are totally different from those originally required to have airbags, and it's a direct result of airbag laws. Manufacturers who had already been working on new vehicle designs were able to integrate airbags more seamlessly than Ford trucks, so they may not be as obvious on the same year models as ours.

by Steve83

 

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