Hot and Squealing Alternator Belt

[ledzilla]

Earlier this year I installed a 150A Tuff Stuff alternator in my '83 to replace the alternator already under the hood that had the voltage regulator burn out. Just recently, though, I found the belt snapped under the hood when it stalled out while I was getting the plow remounted (Christmas weekend, if memory serves correct). The guy at NAPA said the pulleys were likely out of alignment based on the damage to the belt, but when I went to install the new belt the alternator mounting bolts were loose. It was a surprise because I thought I had tightened everything up really nice. So with the new belt I made sure the belt and the bolts were nice and tight when all put back together. But now when I have to engage the plow to lift the blade the belt squeals, then quiets back down after a moment. Today, though, heading out to lunch, it seemed like it was squealing more than usual. When I checked the belt, it still feels tight, but it was rather hot. The belt driving the water pump and power steering was only just slightly warm, so it seemed unlikely to be engine heat. I've never been great at dealing with V-belts, even with my first car back in the 90's that had V-belts. It's been something that has vexxed me with the power steering belt in my old LTD wagon, too.

What's likely to be the problem here, and how can I get it resolved? I don't want to have to be replacing that belt over and over again. Maybe some day down the road I'll get one of those serpentine kits for the 351W, but for now I just want properly snug belts that don't result in squealing and breaking.

 

[miesk5]

Yo ledzilla,
This likely will not assist you .
Following from Chilton:
Once a year or at 12,000 mile intervals, the tension (and condition) of the alternator, power steering (if so equipped), air conditioning (if so equipped), and Thermactor air pump drive belts should be checked, and, if necessary, adjusted. Loose accessory drive belts can lead to poor engine cooling and diminish alternator, power steering pump, air conditioning compressor or Thermactor air pump output. A belt that is too tight places a severe strain on the water pump, alternator, power steering pump, compressor or air pump bearings.
Replace any belt that is so glazed, worn or stretched that it cannot be tightened sufficiently.
The material used in late model drive belts is such that the belts do not show wear. Replace belts at least every three years.
On vehicles with matched belts, replace both belts. New 1/2 inch, 3/8 inch and 5/32 inch wide belts are to be adjusted to a tension of 140 lbs.; 1/4 inch wide belts are adjusted to 80 lbs., measured on a belt tension gauge. Any belt that has been operating for a minimum of 10 minutes is considered a used belt. In the first 10 minutes, the belt should stretch to its maximum extent. After 10 minutes, stop the engine and recheck the belt tension. Belt tension for a used belt should be maintained at 110 lbs. (all except 1/4 inch wide belts) or 60 lbs. (1/4 inch wide belts). If a belt tension gauge is not available, the following procedures may be used.

Some pulleys have a rectangular slot to aid in adjusting the belt.
To adjust or change belts, first loosen the mounting and adjusting bolts slightly.
Push the component towards the engine and slip off the belt.
Slip the new belt over the pulleys.
Pull outwards on the component while tightening the mounting and adjusting bolts. This is a lot harder than it sounds.
On some V8s, it's easier to access the adjusting bolt from underneath.

Loosen the adjusting and mounting bolts on 1983-86 power steering pumps.
Adjust the air condtiioning compressor belt on later model trucks.




push the component towards the engine and slip off the belt beltSlip the new belt over the pulleys Enlarge Pull outwards on the component while tightening the mounting and adjusting bolts. This is a lot harder than it soundsOn some V8s, it's easier to access the adjusting bolt from underneaththe adjusting and mounting bolts on 1983-86 power steering pumps

The alternator, power steering (if so equipped), air conditioning (if so equipped), and Thermactor air pump drive belts should be checked, and, if necessary, adjusted. Loose accessory drive belts can lead to poor engine cooling and diminish alternator, power steering pump, air conditioning compressor or Thermactor air pump output. A belt that is too tight places a severe strain on the water pump, alternator, power steering pump, compressor or air pump bearings.
Replace any belt that is so glazed, worn or stretched that it cannot be tightened sufficiently.
The material used in late model drive belts is such that the belts do not show wear. Replace belts at least every three years.
On vehicles with matched belts, replace both belts. New 1/2 inch, 3/8 inch and 5/32 inch wide belts are to be adjusted to a tension of 140 lbs.; 1/4 inch wide belts are adjusted to 80 lbs., measured on a belt tension gauge. Any belt that has been operating for a minimum of 10 minutes is considered a used belt. In the first 10 minutes, the belt should stretch to its maximum extent. After 10 minutes, stop the engine and recheck the belt tension. Belt tension for a used belt should be maintained at 110 lbs. (all except 1/4 inch wide belts) or 60 lbs. (1/4 inch wide belts). If a belt tension gauge is not available, the following procedures may be used.

 

[miesk5]

Yo ADMIN,
I just replied to ledzilla, but "This message is awaiting moderator approval, and is invisible to normal visitors,".

 

[miesk5]

Done, thanks!

 

[Tiha]

They still make a belt dressing spray. You might try that. Spray it when you start it up to go plow and see if that helps.

Could be a bad pulley, or a pulley polished too smooth from the last belt that was slipping.

Yep, don't miss v-belts for sure.

Also you may want to try a different brand of belt. They are different. Some are harder than others. A softer belt my wear out or rot faster but it will grab better.

 

[L\Bronco]

Earlier this year I installed a 150A Tuff Stuff alternator in my '83 to replace the alternator already under the hood that had the voltage regulator burn out. Just recently, though, I found the belt snapped under the hood when it stalled out while I was getting the plow remounted (Christmas weekend, if memory serves correct). The guy at NAPA said the pulleys were likely out of alignment based on the damage to the belt, but when I went to install the new belt the alternator mounting bolts were loose. It was a surprise because I thought I had tightened everything up really nice. So with the new belt I made sure the belt and the bolts were nice and tight when all put back together. But now when I have to engage the plow to lift the blade the belt squeals, then quiets back down after a moment. Today, though, heading out to lunch, it seemed like it was squealing more than usual. When I checked the belt, it still feels tight, but it was rather hot. The belt driving the water pump and power steering was only just slightly warm, so it seemed unlikely to be engine heat. I've never been great at dealing with V-belts, even with my first car back in the 90's that had V-belts. It's been something that has vexxed me with the power steering belt in my old LTD wagon, too.

What's likely to be the problem here, and how can I get it resolved? I don't want to have to be replacing that belt over and over again. Maybe some day down the road I'll get one of those serpentine kits for the 351W, but for now I just want properly snug belts that don't result in squealing and breaking.

Hey LED
Make sure the V belt is wide enough for the alternator pully. There are several widths of V belts available and if the factory belt is too narrow for the big alternators pulley, it will try to drive off of the bottom of the belt rather than the sides, there is no way it can without slipping.
Hope that helps
Cheers

 

[ledzilla]

Sorry it took a while to get back. Somehow hurt my foot and got caught up in a bunch of stuff. As best I can tell the belt is the right width. It's definitely not too wide. The new belt is the same as the old belt, and the old belt shows wear on the sides. I'm wondering about a couple things now, though...

1) Am I really getting the belt tight enough? I need three hands to secure the alternator in place. The adjustment bolt doesn't secure into the casing like it has for other Fords I've owned, it has a nut on the back which is hard to reach. It's very difficult to maintain tension on the belt when I need two hands to tighten that bolt. Plus with the plow now attached it's more difficult to get two people over there so I can get someone to assist. It's going to be hard enough right now, I suppose, with my foot injury.

2) Is it possible that I need to clean the pulleys further? Maybe there's still a lot more old belt remains in the pulley grooves.

 

[ledzilla]

Ok, so the other night I had to bust out the Bronco and do some plowing. Judging by the squealing and dimming of lights that occurred when having to adjust the plow blade, I'm thinking the belt isn't gripping right. When I have an opportunity I'm going to see if I can get the pulleys cleaned off better and the belt tighter. I think I have a couple people I can enlist to help with tightening the belt. I just hope that they can hold the pry bar in a fashion that doesn't keep me from being able to reach down and tighten the adjustment bolt.

 

[L\Bronco]

Ok, so the other night I had to bust out the Bronco and do some plowing. Judging by the squealing and dimming of lights that occurred when having to adjust the plow blade, I'm thinking the belt isn't gripping right. When I have an opportunity I'm going to see if I can get the pulleys cleaned off better and the belt tighter. I think I have a couple people I can enlist to help with tightening the belt. I just hope that they can hold the pry bar in a fashion that doesn't keep me from being able to reach down and tighten the adjustment bolt.

Good luck with it. An old guy trick up here is to use big waterpump pliers (channel locks) and squeeze between the ear of the alternator and the end of the adjustment bracket. It might help with access.
Cheers

 

[ledzilla]

Good luck with it. An old guy trick up here is to use big waterpump pliers (channel locks) and squeeze between the ear of the alternator and the end of the adjustment bracket. It might help with access.
Cheers

That's a nifty idea. The temp is supposed to drop pretty far this weekend and I'm reluctant to ask anyone to help with this when it gets so cold.

 

[L\Bronco]

I understand that, We were -56 with the windchill last night, high of -34 today.
I wouldn't want to ask either!
Cheers

 

[ledzilla]

Managed to tend to the belt over the weekend. I ordered one of those "krikit" style belt tension gauge, and yeah, it showed some rather low tension. I was able to finagle some extra tension on the belt and the squealing went away. Temporarily. I had such a difficult time trying to squeeze in around the plow, it hampered my efforts. Figure now that I know for sure what's going on I can make better attempt later when the temps aren't so low.

 

[ledzilla]

The belt snapped again. And, like last time, I didn't notice until I went under the hood for something else. Since I still had the old alternator sitting on my tool chest, I checked the belt against the wear pattern on its pulley. So, the belt that was being used before I bought it was a 13/32" belt. But you can see that the wear spot was down in the pulley, there was rust at the outer edge of the pulley groove. I started looking more closely at belt options for alternators. All of the Gates options were 13/32". But I noticed some of the other brands, like Continental, had a 15/32" option listed.

Hey LED
Make sure the V belt is wide enough for the alternator pully. There are several widths of V belts available and if the factory belt is too narrow for the big alternators pulley, it will try to drive off of the bottom of the belt rather than the sides, there is no way it can without slipping.
Hope that helps
Cheers

I'm thinking you were right all along and I didn't notice at first. The old alternator was a high output 3G alternator, as well, so I'm not surprised the pulleys are the same, so it's likely that I misjudged the fitment the whole time. Gonna order up a wider, and longer, belt. See how that goes. I think I was ordering too short of a belt in the first place, though, since it was ridiculously tough fitting the belts on. Going to try a 39" belt instead of the 37.5" belts I already used. Figure I'll need it to be a little longer, anyway, if it's not going to sit as deep in the pulley.

 

[ledzilla]

The wider belt seems to be doing the trick. But now the power steering pump seems to acting up. I guess you win some, you lose some. =P

 

[johnnyreb]

Earlier this year I installed a 150A Tuff Stuff alternator in my '83 to replace the alternator already under the hood that had the voltage regulator burn out. Just recently, though, I found the belt snapped under the hood when it stalled out while I was getting the plow remounted (Christmas weekend, if memory serves correct). The guy at NAPA said the pulleys were likely out of alignment based on the damage to the belt, but when I went to install the new belt the alternator mounting bolts were loose. It was a surprise because I thought I had tightened everything up really nice. So with the new belt I made sure the belt and the bolts were nice and tight when all put back together. But now when I have to engage the plow to lift the blade the belt squeals, then quiets back down after a moment. Today, though, heading out to lunch, it seemed like it was squealing more than usual. When I checked the belt, it still feels tight, but it was rather hot. The belt driving the water pump and power steering was only just slightly warm, so it seemed unlikely to be engine heat. I've never been great at dealing with V-belts, even with my first car back in the 90's that had V-belts. It's been something that has vexxed me with the power steering belt in my old LTD wagon, too.

What's likely to be the problem here, and how can I get it resolved? I don't want to have to be replacing that belt over and over again. Maybe some day down the road I'll get one of those serpentine kits for the 351W, but for now I just want properly snug belts that don't result in squealing and breaking.

If the belt was TIGHT and Hot----the BELT IS TO TIGHT. Squealing also could be belt(s) out of alignment or a bad alternator bearing going bad or belt too tight. Also check other pulley as in water pump and power steering pump and the brackets being bent--loose or broken as in aluminiun brackets--if it has one.

 

[ledzilla]

Ok, so I've been keeping an eye on what's happening with the alternator belts. I ended up having to squeeze on a belt that was too small, but it was a 0.47" width like the previous belt. The previous belt somehow popped off and got damaged. But what I noticed with that belt and now the current belt is excessive wear on the sides, just below the top of the belt. So, now I'm certain that the issue is due to the crank pulley and alternator pulley having different groove widths. Put on the right width belt, it gets shredded by sitting too deep in the alternator pulley. Put on a belt that fits the alternator pulley well, it gets wrecked by sitting too high in the crank pulley. I managed to find some replacement pulleys on eBay, so I'll check fitment and all once they arrive. Diameter and groove width seem ok based on the description, but I don't fully trust descriptions on anything. I'm just glad this isn't costing much.

 

[chrlsful]

how many shives on this frnt dress? 5?
What PS pump and plow pump? Is it adjusted right (ol Fisher pumps have 2 adjustments). I swapped in the 'canned ham' for PS.

*Shure is alot to check. Shive dia, width of belt opening, alighnment, component condition. Plowing doesnt just wack ball joints and bearings...

Each fall I run it all (plow included as I drop that belt each spring) and play for a min of 20 min. after each adjustment the wk I go out to old/new contracts to get signatures and make site sketches (obstructions, where customers want sno stacked). Rather have it all ready’n not mess so much out in the cold or garage. Also can drop plow on/off for access (use top creeper over the side sometimes).
My archive has all the shive options by part number but is for the 4.1L i6 ina lill 1st gen bronk, sorry. Let us know~

 

[ledzilla]

So, all of the pulleys I've ordered have arrived. Two of them ended up being the exact same thing, even though I thought I was ordering different pulleys from different sellers. They're right out, the grooves are too narrow for the default 7/16" belt being used for the alternator. The belt doesn't even fully seat into the grooves, the belt shoulder sticks out well above the pulley. I haven't had a chance yet to test out the third pulley. It only just arrived after disappearing in transit for several days and the weather has been dreadful the entire time. Well, that and I hurt my ankle over the weekend, so trying to do comparisons to the currently installed pulley haven't been possible since I'm insufficiently mobile at present. If this pulley doesn't work out, I suppose maybe I can hit up car-part.com and see about getting a used pulley.

 

[Tiha]

So it has to be the wrong alternator pulley right?

A belt can sit flush with the top of the pulley but never out at all. At that point you are in theory losing contact area on the sides of the belt and wearing them out faster. Which you already knew.

Can't remember all the details but years ago I had a similar issue on a '73 bronco. I ended up cutting a new pulley for the alternator on a lathe. There was no internet, no u=pull salvage yards I could walk around and compare too or take measurements from.

Here is just another crazy thought. I had a 6.2 diesel suburban and the alt belt was totally unreliable. PS belt would keep the water pump going, but you would loose charging and often wouldn't know until it was too late. I remember one trip, we drove halfway cross the country, been driving for 24 hours, never shut the truck off once.
Driving through the parking lot at our destination off it came. No rhyme or reason.

So I bought a set of pulleys for a 6.2 diesel used. Cut them and welded it to my original pulleys adding a second alternator belt. Never had another belt problem. That was the front belt on that engine. Not sure if you are set up the same.

 

[chrlsful]

“...wouldn't know until it was too late..."
that’s Y (1 reason) we use the 3G (ford) over the 1wire (gm). It has the idiot light (goes off on dash asap).
help?: https://fordification.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=84876
Haynes and Chilton's can show whats correct the lill more expensive shop manuals (for the ford tech @ the dealers) are even better. See * @ post 7.
Might’s well do it oem. All U need is documented (& to work right as well). I all ways try’n customize as lill as possible (U might say “No” when lookin @ my sig, but I do) so as to take these advantages...