electric fans

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cj_92Bronco

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hey guys, another annoying question. my dad was talking to a mechanic the other day about random shit and he had mentioned he used to have a bronco. he also mentioned that he had installed some aux. electric fans near the radiator that had a temp gauge in the coolant or the radiator or something liek that. he said that it helped alot with A. gas milage, B. Horse Power, and C. Over all preformance. has anyone ever heard/ done this before cause my engine gets hot as shit and i think that would be a good add for under the hood. what kind and where would i get them? are they pretty easy to install?

 

Broncobill78

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I've used electric fans myself many times. They usually help whe you've swapped engines and don't really have the clearance for your standard waterpump mounted fan. They're also useful when you've bumped up your horsepower and have resulting cooling issues. Electric fans can cool better than a pump mounted fan. I had a 68' Charger that I used 3 fans on because it was so hard to keep cool. I had 2 pullers & 1 pusher (2 inside on the engine side that pulled air in and one on the grill side that pushed air thru) and they worked much better than the single pump mounted fan & shroud. Generally you use an electric when you have cooling issues, you use the stock temp switch that's in the radiator and connect it to the fan so the fan will come on at a specific temp & then turn off at another specific temp. I can't honestly say as I can see a fan making much of a difference in milage or horsepower (horsepower MAYBE but it would only be a fractional difference and only because it would be related to how much power an engine makes at a given temp so controlling the engine temp better will keep your horsepower more consistant but again, I think you're dealing with maybe 1/10th of a horse or so, nothing dramatic, and you'd have a horse or two availabe now that the engine *isn't* spinning the fan anymore but it's really not much of a net gain) and performance is the same deal, it maybe improves fractionally but only because of the consistant engine temp.

The advantage of electric fans is that they eliminate the parasitic loss of HP because the fan is now one less thing the engine has to spin so that power is now available to the tires (but it wasn't a lot to begin with) and they're better able to keep the engine at a constant temp because they aren't dependent on engine revs or vehicle speed. You can be crawling in traffic and an electric fan will spin up, pull in the air and cool the engine when a pump mounted fan won't. You can also double, triple or quadruple up on them to achieve the cooling you want.

You can get one at any parts store, speed shop or catalog outlet and sure, they're easy to install. It usually takes more work to remove the stock fan & shroud than it does to install the electric fan.

 
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crazyhorse85

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I AGREE WITH BB78,IT'S LESS DRAG ON THE ENGINE...BUT DOES COOL BETTER THAN PUMP MOUNTED FAN...IF YOUR GOING THAT ROUTE BE SURE YOU GET A FAN THAT HAS ENOUGH CFM TO PROPERLY KEEP THE ENGINE COOL...WE PUT ONE ON MY SON'S 92 EXPLORER ALONG WITH HEAVY DUTY TRANS.COOLER AND WORKS GREAT...AND FIGURE IT WILL WORK JUST AS GOOD AFTER THE 302 SWAP...WE INSTALLED A PUSHER FAN MORE ROOM ON THE GRILL SIDE OF THE RADIATOR ON HIS TRUCK...

 

BroncoJoe19

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I also agree with what BroncoBill78 said, at least it all makes sense to me.

I had seen in another thread here, that one member claims that changing to electric fans increased gas mileage 2-3 mpg.

That had me thinking that it wouldn't take long for it to pay for itself.

Anyone else have similar mpg improvements with the use of electirc fans?

Question for cj_92...

Does you truck run hot even at highway speeds, or just when stuck in traffic?

joe

 

Broncobill78

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I've never seen a noticable milage improvement when switching to an electric fan. Granted I'm sure there's probably SOME miniscule improvement that some guy with a bench dyno & very accurate flow meters could quantify but as far as real-world ? Naw, I've never seen it. Now admittedly I installed them pretty exclusively on street rods and I never really drove the Charger or Mustangs with an eye towards milage (I drove them till the gauge hit "E" then put in more fuel & went back to looking for girls. I wasn't really thinking about milage at the time). I also used them when I did my 460/Bronco swaps just because I was spending so much time on the trails at low revs. They cooled great but again I never saw any sort of milage increase.

Now I *suppose* (and that's a big IF) that maybe you might possibly see a very small but noticable increase if you're running a small 4cyl engine with a crank-driven fan because in that case the power needed to turn the fan is a much larger percentage of what the engine produces. 3 or 4 HP isn't very much to a 250-300hp V8 but it's a much larger chuck of output for a 65-70hp engine. That's really the only scenario I can imagine where you would be able to record an actual improvemnt in milage.

Now that's not to say there isn't a good arguement for installing electric fans, there are plenty of good reasons to run them and I'm a big fan (whoops, ha ha) of them. I think they're great for 4x4's, I just don't think anyone should run out & install one on the basis of improved fuel milage. That's just not gonna happen & you're setting yourself up for some disappointment.

 

Seabronc

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As you can tell by my truck vitals, I have an electric fan. I am a little skeptical of a claimed 2-3 MPG increase as a result of converting from mechanical to electrical. There is most likely a small increase but I can't say that I it was anything that was realy noticeable by itself. However, every little bit helps. The reason I did it was to improve the cooling and take the mechanical load off the engine. That in itself frees up the few HP that it takes to swing the mechanical fan for use by the drive train. However, when the fan is running it takes just about as much to run it as it takes to run the mechanical. For that reason, you want to have it come on only when the system exceeds a set temperature and not run all the time.

If you are going to put an electrical fan on, you definitely need to put one on that has a CFM rating to cool the engine properly, WHEN NEEDED. That is different for different engines. The advantage here is it will come on with full force while my engine is idling which isn't so for a mechanical fan. The main problem with stock cooling system design in general is, that it is least efficient when the engine needs it the most, (hot outside air and engine running near OR at idle speed).

I happen to be a fan :rolleyes: , no pun, of the Imperial 226204 control which monitors the temperture of the coolant via a probe in the radiator fins, just under neath the top radiator hose. You can adjust it for any temperature you want to maintain, mine is set to come on at 190 (5 degrees over the Tstat rating). I happen to have a super cooling system and the fan almost never comes on in the winter and on the hottest days with surface temperatures of 135+ f it comes on around 35 MPH and below, Other times it only comes on when setting at a light for 3 to 4 minutes and then goes off when I start moving.

You also need control in the cab to force it on if for some reason your sensor fails and if you are doing any off road driving, then you need to be able to turn it off when going through water that may come up to the fan level. That can be accomplished by installing an ON/OFF/ON switch in the cab.

As you can see, I use the Lincoln Mark VIII fan for a 4.6 liter engine. On vehicles with less that a 130Amp alternator it is necessary to upgrade. This fan pulls 100 amps start current and settles out at around 33 amps. That is too ******* a system with only a 95 amp alternator. An electrical system with less than 135A will most likely exhibit other undesirable problems.

A couple of pictures. 1. A schematic but mine is altered a bit, 2. The temperature probe, 3. The fan installed, 4. The original location of the controller, 5. The new location after cleaning up the engine compartment, relocating the battery, and adding a under hood fuse box to eliminate fusible links, 6. The Dash switch with an indicator under it to let me know if the fan has voltage supplied to it from the fan relay, 7. The engine it came from.

Good luck,

:)>-

PS

This is only 1/2 of the modification I plan to make to the cooling system. The other removes the Water pump and installs an electric one. That is much more significant as far as freeing up power for other usage. Perhaps I will get to it in this years projects. $-)

1/22/08

Those pictures didn't come out quite in the order I expected. This is the picture order left to right top row comment 7, 1, 6, 5; bottom row 4, 3, 2

schematic.gif

100_3692.jpg

Bronco_modifications_050.jpg

100_3720.jpg

Tank_access_011.jpg

Dash_002a.jpg

Lincoln_Mark_VIII_Engine.jpg

 
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86_Bronco

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Awsome Post Sea Bronc, I have been searching to find a way to set up my cooling sytem and yours sounds perfect. I will have lots of questions for you when i go to do it. I do it cant now cause im still in Iraq.

 
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cj_92Bronco

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I also agree with what BroncoBill78 said, at least it all makes sense to me.
I had seen in another thread here, that one member claims that changing to electric fans increased gas mileage 2-3 mpg.

That had me thinking that it wouldn't take long for it to pay for itself.

Anyone else have similar mpg improvements with the use of electirc fans?

Question for cj_92...

Does you truck run hot even at highway speeds, or just when stuck in traffic?

joe

To answer your question, yes it does run hot during highway speeds as well. I have also noticed that after driving anywhere for a good twenty minutes and stop my truck then start it up again it takes a good extra second or two to turn over, and i have no idea why that happens, could it be because its hot?

 

Seabronc

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Those pictures didn't come out quite in the order I expected. This is the picture order left to right top row comment 7, 1, 6, 5; bottom row 4, 3, 2

:blush:

:)>-

 
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BroncoJoe19

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To answer your question, yes it does run hot during highway speeds as well.
hmmm... try changing your thermostat to 165 dgrees or whatever is recommended for your engine.

IF that does not fix it, then I suspect that you have a partially clogged radiator.

A replacement radiator should cost approx $150 new. Much less at a ******. It *may* be possible to have it cleaned at a radiator shop. (they used to remove the side tanks, and slide long thin rods through the tubes to clear out any collected rust or built up crystalized antifreeze. In an effort to lower weight the metal used in radiators today is much thinner, and I don't think they can rod them anymore) You could call a local shop, and ask.

The electric fan is always an option, but IMO you will need to address the cooling capacity of your radiator first. OR if you are really lucky... the thermostat.

Good luck,

joe.

Oh... SeaBronc,

That was one of the most awesome responses I have seen... excellent!

joe

 

madmaysey

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2-4 hp to spin a fan? really i have a 1/2hp motor here at work that spins a water pump that does like 120 gpm

but i really don't know just at first thought that seems like alot

 

madmaysey

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but i guess if your crankin down the freeway thats a lot of air resistance to move

 

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