1988/302/C6/4x4 Pulled it out of storage last week since the weather warmed up. Filled it with gas and been driving it to work every day with no problems. Friday morning, started it up, drove it to the bank, went in cashed my check, came back out started it up drove it to my grandma's house. Left there an hour later started it up drove it to work. Came out on break to go to the store, hit the key and it would sit there and crank but not fire. Sprayed carb clean in the intake, still couldn't get it to fire. Smelled like it was getting fuel anyways. Checked for spark getting spark. Nothing appeared to be wrong with the truck but I stayed out there till about midnight with no luck before I called it a night. Went back saturday morning, hit the key and she fired up. Drove to the gas station, shut it down, filled her up, started it and drove it home. Went to go to my buddy's house about an hour later, got in it, hit the key, and it would sit there and crank, but not fire. Same symptoms. What the ****?
Truck has a mind of its own
- Thread starter Art5
- Start date
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yo Art,
Try a Self Test for Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC)s by my pal, BroncoJoe19 here @ http://broncozone.com/topic/14269-code-reader/?&pid=74587&mode=threaded
The engine temperature must be greater than 50°F (10°C) to pass the KOEO Self-Test and greater than 180°F (82°C) to pass the KOER Self-Test.
Run it around to heat the engine up and shift thru all gears incl Reverse. Then turn off all accessories/lights, etc.
Make sure A/C is off and transmission is in Park (automatic) or in Neutral for a Manual & release clutch.
Do Key On Engine Off (KOEO) portion first.
And Post em here according to:
KOEO
&
KOER
=======
Guesses for now;
DTC 14 & 18; Profile Ignition Pickup (PIP) & Troubleshooting; "...The top three leads (for PIP signal) can lose continuity with the back plate (ground) on the module when the unit is hot. If your TFI is failing from heat, it can give off computer codes 14 (PIP) and 18 (SPOUT). stalling/dieing or sputtering when hot but runs when it cools off. This can be caused by a faulty TFI and the biggest culprits are heat. Another culprit can be a wire grounding out. Problematic TFI's can give off codes 14 (PIP) and 18 (SPOUT)..."
No Start and or Misfire, etc.; Thick Film Ignition (TFI) Testing, Overview & Diagrams, Distributor Mounted Ignition Control Module (ICM); "...Part I; In This Fast Test you'll be able to pinpoint the problem to the Ignition Control Module or the Ignition Coil or the Profile Ignition Pickup Sensor (PIP Sensor) in four easy test steps. This test will only help you in a Cranks but Does Not Start Condition. So then, before starting the tests, it's critical that you have checked and verified that there's NO SPARK present at the Ignition Coil. Why? Well, because if the Ignition Coil is sparking, it would be a clear indication that it and the Ignition Coil and the Crankshaft Position Sensor (PIP Sensor) are working. This article applies to both the Gray colored Ignition Control Module and the Black colored Ignition Control Module. The Gray colored Ignition Control Module is called the Push Start Module and the Black colored Ignition Control Module is called the Computer Controlled Dwell Module. These ignition control modules are not interchangeable.
Read More
by easyautodiagnostics @ http://easyautodiagnostics.com/ford_ignition_module/distributor_mounted_module_1.php
Some parts stores will "loan" a spark tester, etc. for a refundable deposit or build one yourself.
GL!
Try a Self Test for Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC)s by my pal, BroncoJoe19 here @ http://broncozone.com/topic/14269-code-reader/?&pid=74587&mode=threaded
The engine temperature must be greater than 50°F (10°C) to pass the KOEO Self-Test and greater than 180°F (82°C) to pass the KOER Self-Test.
Run it around to heat the engine up and shift thru all gears incl Reverse. Then turn off all accessories/lights, etc.
Make sure A/C is off and transmission is in Park (automatic) or in Neutral for a Manual & release clutch.
Do Key On Engine Off (KOEO) portion first.
And Post em here according to:
KOEO
&
KOER
=======
Guesses for now;
DTC 14 & 18; Profile Ignition Pickup (PIP) & Troubleshooting; "...The top three leads (for PIP signal) can lose continuity with the back plate (ground) on the module when the unit is hot. If your TFI is failing from heat, it can give off computer codes 14 (PIP) and 18 (SPOUT). stalling/dieing or sputtering when hot but runs when it cools off. This can be caused by a faulty TFI and the biggest culprits are heat. Another culprit can be a wire grounding out. Problematic TFI's can give off codes 14 (PIP) and 18 (SPOUT)..."
No Start and or Misfire, etc.; Thick Film Ignition (TFI) Testing, Overview & Diagrams, Distributor Mounted Ignition Control Module (ICM); "...Part I; In This Fast Test you'll be able to pinpoint the problem to the Ignition Control Module or the Ignition Coil or the Profile Ignition Pickup Sensor (PIP Sensor) in four easy test steps. This test will only help you in a Cranks but Does Not Start Condition. So then, before starting the tests, it's critical that you have checked and verified that there's NO SPARK present at the Ignition Coil. Why? Well, because if the Ignition Coil is sparking, it would be a clear indication that it and the Ignition Coil and the Crankshaft Position Sensor (PIP Sensor) are working. This article applies to both the Gray colored Ignition Control Module and the Black colored Ignition Control Module. The Gray colored Ignition Control Module is called the Push Start Module and the Black colored Ignition Control Module is called the Computer Controlled Dwell Module. These ignition control modules are not interchangeable.
Read More
by easyautodiagnostics @ http://easyautodiagnostics.com/ford_ignition_module/distributor_mounted_module_1.php
Some parts stores will "loan" a spark tester, etc. for a refundable deposit or build one yourself.
GL!
yo Art,
ok
DTC 21 ECT out of self test range 0.3 to 3.7 volts; ECT is bad, engine not warmed up, bad thermostat, low coolant..Coolant is less than 50 deg F for KOEO, or less than 180 deg F for KOER, or greater than 250 deg F for either.
So iggie this 21 code bec. of eng not running
If coolant temp is in proper range, suspect ECT sensor or it's connector/wiring.
DTC 33 is triggered when the EVP sensor (atop EGR Valve) is not closing; so EZiest & cheapest checks are to inspect & repair/replace repair any bad vac lines. for a <$ vac line test; I pull em off and use the straw sucking test; one finger over one end
DTC 41, 42, 91, 92, 136, 137,139, 144, 171, 172, 173, 175, 176, 177 & some Possible Causes for Rich & Lean HEGO The engine temperature must be greater than 50°F (10°C) to pass the KOEO Self-Test and greater than 180°F (82°C) to pass the KOER Self-Test. To accomplish this, the engine should be at normal operating temperature
Source: by Ryan M
In the article I posted previously by easydiagnostics;
CASE 1: Spark was present in all of the cylinders A spark result, if you're using a dedicated spark tester, tells you that:
When was fuel filter last changed?
ok
DTC 21 ECT out of self test range 0.3 to 3.7 volts; ECT is bad, engine not warmed up, bad thermostat, low coolant..Coolant is less than 50 deg F for KOEO, or less than 180 deg F for KOER, or greater than 250 deg F for either.
So iggie this 21 code bec. of eng not running
If coolant temp is in proper range, suspect ECT sensor or it's connector/wiring.
DTC 33 is triggered when the EVP sensor (atop EGR Valve) is not closing; so EZiest & cheapest checks are to inspect & repair/replace repair any bad vac lines. for a <$ vac line test; I pull em off and use the straw sucking test; one finger over one end
DTC 41, 42, 91, 92, 136, 137,139, 144, 171, 172, 173, 175, 176, 177 & some Possible Causes for Rich & Lean HEGO The engine temperature must be greater than 50°F (10°C) to pass the KOEO Self-Test and greater than 180°F (82°C) to pass the KOER Self-Test. To accomplish this, the engine should be at normal operating temperature
Source: by Ryan M
In the article I posted previously by easydiagnostics;
CASE 1: Spark was present in all of the cylinders A spark result, if you're using a dedicated spark tester, tells you that:
- That the ignition control module is OK.
- That the PIP (Profile Ignition Pickup) sensor is OK.
- That the ignition coil is doing dandy.
- You don't have to spend any time testing them or any money replacing them.
When was fuel filter last changed?
Rons beast
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- Dec 13, 2007
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- 1,537
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Hey Art,
As M5 stated above on the checks. I have found both ECT sensor, and EGR open causing problems as you described. First check all wires and vac lines. If the truck starts ok when fully cold , it is possible that the ECT sensor is bad. When cold and in open loop the ECT isn't critical, but after a warmup, if the ECT is sending wrong signals the comp gets confused as to how to adjust fuel dwell.
If EGR is open the start mixture will be way too lean.
Also check fuel pressure, as M5 advised. If ethanol fuel sat in the tank for long it can cause corrosion that can get in the filter, and cause other problems.
Good Luck
As M5 stated above on the checks. I have found both ECT sensor, and EGR open causing problems as you described. First check all wires and vac lines. If the truck starts ok when fully cold , it is possible that the ECT sensor is bad. When cold and in open loop the ECT isn't critical, but after a warmup, if the ECT is sending wrong signals the comp gets confused as to how to adjust fuel dwell.
If EGR is open the start mixture will be way too lean.
Also check fuel pressure, as M5 advised. If ethanol fuel sat in the tank for long it can cause corrosion that can get in the filter, and cause other problems.
Good Luck
Last edited by a moderator:
I just had the same problem of failure to start warm but starting when cold, on my '86. I had the ignition module (TFI) tested at my local parts store and it was bad, again. A new module fixed it. It is a pain to get the distributor to turn so I can get to the screws but I have a good bit of experience doing the job since I have had the old girl since she was new.
It threw an EGR code, I've never replaced the EGR so I went ahead and put one on, didn't expect it to correct the problem but I did it anyway. Test drove the **** out of it yesterday, I would start it, drive it around, bring it home, park it, repeat. I did that intermittently all day, started it probably 10-15 times between noon and midnight. Put 25 miles on it doing so. Ran great, started every time. Come out this morning to take it to work, got in, hit the key, and she fired up. Sat there for about 30 seconds and she just died. Hit the key and she started again, but was running rough. Gave it throttle and blew black smoke out of the tailpipes...when I let off the gas she just died again. I decided ***** it and drove Ol Reliable to work instead but what the **** man. I drove that truck all around yesterday and it ran great.
Rons beast
Active member
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2007
- Messages
- 1,537
- Reaction score
- 13
Hey Art , I know this can be frustrating. The black smoke is a rich indication. First I would clear the codes. Then start and drive (if she will.) or crank and look again for the black smoke.
Check again for codes.
From what your telling us the truck is running rich intermittently. We need to find out why. The ECT sensor could be the culprit See M5 above= If coolant temp is in proper range, suspect ECT sensor or it's connector/wiring.
I have found the ECT sensor to be a source of starting problems.
Have you checked the fuel pressure? it may be too high from a bad regulator, or the injectors could be getting a signal to dwell too long, ( again if the ECT is telling the comp the engine is full cold.)
Stick with it Bud...we'll find the problem.
Good Luck.
Check again for codes.
From what your telling us the truck is running rich intermittently. We need to find out why. The ECT sensor could be the culprit See M5 above= If coolant temp is in proper range, suspect ECT sensor or it's connector/wiring.
I have found the ECT sensor to be a source of starting problems.
Have you checked the fuel pressure? it may be too high from a bad regulator, or the injectors could be getting a signal to dwell too long, ( again if the ECT is telling the comp the engine is full cold.)
Stick with it Bud...we'll find the problem.
Good Luck.
Last edited by a moderator:
Yo Art,
AS Ron advised on ECT;
Remove the ECT sensor, If you see some rust in it clean it by sanding the surface using a fine grit sandpaper, Also check the connector and wiring. Reinstall and check for codes, if some are present change the unit.
ECT & Temperature Gauge Sending Unit Location Diagram in a 5.0
Source: by Gacknar (The Mall-Crawler, Jeremy, "Big grey megga beast") at SuperMotors.net
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/265237/original/GT-40%20lower%20intake.JPG
JKossarides wrote, "...the brass style ECT is what you want, not el cheap plastic from Autozone; and check the harness connector, in most cases they just "unsnap" and come apart like a weather-pak style where you can either buy a new pigtail or get one in the JY and use ( unsnap -resnap) it on the existing 2 lead wire harness and you're good to go. I had a problem with my ECT connector not being hooked up...lol lol... but I won't bore anybody with the details...Remember the ECT is a fuel manager at "cold start" so any issues with it may prevent starting..."
DTC 21, 51, 61 or 116, 117, 118 "...Failure in either the circuit or temperature sensor will show code 21, 51, 61 or 116, 117, 118.Unplug the harness connector. First, check the signal voltage at the connector with the key on, engine off. Should be approximately 5.0v. Then, check the resistance of the sensor cold. Should be between 58,750 to 40,500 ohms. Plug in the harness connector and warm up the engine to normal operating temperature. Then, unplug and check the resistance of the sensor hot. Should be 3,600 to 1,840 ohms...Testing; "..."But due to its simplicity of design, the ECT is rarely at fault when problems occur. Before testing the ECT or any other EFI component perform a self-test, trouble codes received during test can be used as a diagnostic tool along with other indicators. To test an ECT sensor you will need a volt meter. You can test the ECT by back probing the harness while reading the voltage returning to the EEC. Or you can removing the connector completely and test the resistance between the 2 pins on the ECT..." READ MORE
Source: by Ryan M (Fireguy50) at
https://web.archive.org/web/20120923014031/http://oldfuelinjection.com/?p=28
Consider Ford Fuel Injection and Electronic Engine Control: How to Understand, Service and Modify, 1988-1993; & Ford Fuel Injection and Electronic Engine Control: How to Understand, Service, and Modify All Ford-Lincoln-Mercury Cars and Light Trucks, 1980 to 1987 by Charlie Probst
avail @ BARNES & NOBLE, AMAZON, E BAY, ETC.
AS Ron advised on ECT;
Remove the ECT sensor, If you see some rust in it clean it by sanding the surface using a fine grit sandpaper, Also check the connector and wiring. Reinstall and check for codes, if some are present change the unit.
ECT & Temperature Gauge Sending Unit Location Diagram in a 5.0
Source: by Gacknar (The Mall-Crawler, Jeremy, "Big grey megga beast") at SuperMotors.net
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/265237/original/GT-40%20lower%20intake.JPG
JKossarides wrote, "...the brass style ECT is what you want, not el cheap plastic from Autozone; and check the harness connector, in most cases they just "unsnap" and come apart like a weather-pak style where you can either buy a new pigtail or get one in the JY and use ( unsnap -resnap) it on the existing 2 lead wire harness and you're good to go. I had a problem with my ECT connector not being hooked up...lol lol... but I won't bore anybody with the details...Remember the ECT is a fuel manager at "cold start" so any issues with it may prevent starting..."
DTC 21, 51, 61 or 116, 117, 118 "...Failure in either the circuit or temperature sensor will show code 21, 51, 61 or 116, 117, 118.Unplug the harness connector. First, check the signal voltage at the connector with the key on, engine off. Should be approximately 5.0v. Then, check the resistance of the sensor cold. Should be between 58,750 to 40,500 ohms. Plug in the harness connector and warm up the engine to normal operating temperature. Then, unplug and check the resistance of the sensor hot. Should be 3,600 to 1,840 ohms...Testing; "..."But due to its simplicity of design, the ECT is rarely at fault when problems occur. Before testing the ECT or any other EFI component perform a self-test, trouble codes received during test can be used as a diagnostic tool along with other indicators. To test an ECT sensor you will need a volt meter. You can test the ECT by back probing the harness while reading the voltage returning to the EEC. Or you can removing the connector completely and test the resistance between the 2 pins on the ECT..." READ MORE
Source: by Ryan M (Fireguy50) at
https://web.archive.org/web/20120923014031/http://oldfuelinjection.com/?p=28
Consider Ford Fuel Injection and Electronic Engine Control: How to Understand, Service and Modify, 1988-1993; & Ford Fuel Injection and Electronic Engine Control: How to Understand, Service, and Modify All Ford-Lincoln-Mercury Cars and Light Trucks, 1980 to 1987 by Charlie Probst
avail @ BARNES & NOBLE, AMAZON, E BAY, ETC.
Last edited by a moderator:
yo Art,
DTC 21 ECT out of self test range 0.3 to 3.7 volts; "... , engine not warmed up, ECT is bad, bad thermostat, low coolant. Coolant is less than 50 deg F for KOEO, or less than 180 deg F for KOER, or greater than 250 deg F for either. If coolant temp is in proper range, suspect ECT sensor or it's connector/wiring..."
DTC 41, 42, 91, 92, 136, 137,139, 144, 171, 172, 173, 175, 176, 177 & some Possible Causes for Rich & Lean HEGO The engine temperature must be greater than 50°F (10°C) to pass the KOEO Self-Test and greater than 180°F (82°C) to pass the KOER Self-Test. To accomplish this, the engine should be at normal operating temperature
Source: by Ryan M (Fireguy50
DTC 51 ECT voltage too high (coolant too cold, indicates -40degF). Suspect possible shorted ECT, harness. Inspect connector & LG/Y & BK/W wires
See wiring diagram @ http://www.revbase.com/BBBMotor/Wd/DownloadPdf?id=21068
DTC 33 is triggered when the EVP sensor is not closing; so EZiest & cheapest checks are to inspect & repair/replace repair any bad vac lines. for a <$ vac line test; I pull em off and use the straw sucking test; one finger over one end
EVP sensor indicates EGR is not opening properly
EGR is bad or EVP is bad
DTC 21 ECT out of self test range 0.3 to 3.7 volts; "... , engine not warmed up, ECT is bad, bad thermostat, low coolant. Coolant is less than 50 deg F for KOEO, or less than 180 deg F for KOER, or greater than 250 deg F for either. If coolant temp is in proper range, suspect ECT sensor or it's connector/wiring..."
DTC 41, 42, 91, 92, 136, 137,139, 144, 171, 172, 173, 175, 176, 177 & some Possible Causes for Rich & Lean HEGO The engine temperature must be greater than 50°F (10°C) to pass the KOEO Self-Test and greater than 180°F (82°C) to pass the KOER Self-Test. To accomplish this, the engine should be at normal operating temperature
Source: by Ryan M (Fireguy50
DTC 51 ECT voltage too high (coolant too cold, indicates -40degF). Suspect possible shorted ECT, harness. Inspect connector & LG/Y & BK/W wires
See wiring diagram @ http://www.revbase.com/BBBMotor/Wd/DownloadPdf?id=21068
DTC 33 is triggered when the EVP sensor is not closing; so EZiest & cheapest checks are to inspect & repair/replace repair any bad vac lines. for a <$ vac line test; I pull em off and use the straw sucking test; one finger over one end
EVP sensor indicates EGR is not opening properly
EGR is bad or EVP is bad
