Timing condensor

[cdubinit82]

Alright im back and need more imput please.I have a 87 bronco 302efi that i just changed the timing chain on a few months back.Every thing was running great and a couple of weeks ago a packrat or field mice (cause i live in the middle of no were) got in the engine and chewed up a wire right by my ignition coil.My baby was runnin real rough so i took it to autozone and they said it was a timing condensor,but there computer shows that my 87 doesnt have one.Well i went to advance auto parts and there computer shows that it had one but they couldnt get the part.The went back a few years and found one for a 68 bronco so i purchased that and twisted and black taped the wires.It runs a little better but it still spuders every now and then and im getting only 8 to 10 mpgs when i was get 16 to 20 mpgs.Could someone please tell me if the condensor from the 68 is the same as the 87.They both look the same but i dont have a clue when it comes to little stuff like that.Thanks for reading and please help. [-o<

 

[miesk5]

yo,CDUB,

Is this it?

Capacitor, Radio Suppression Connector Location Diagram in a 90



Source: by SeattleFSB (Seattle FSB) at SuperMotors.net

One side to Coil Battery terminal through a splice& other side is to ground

or is it the suppression resistor?

one side to Coil Tach & other to ECA

 

[cdubinit82]

hey meisk,Im not 100 percent but i think by the diagram it would be the radio capacitor but it is on the other side by were the thermactor air bypass is.The piece that got ruined on my bronco is just a small little metal tube with i believe one wire coming out of it that is bolted on to the ignition coil housing or frame.Im guessing its probably the suppression resistor.

 

[miesk5]

yo,

Ford started using the six-pin TFI module with the EEC-IV computer system in 1983, and for years it remained basically unchanged. The early TFI system, which Ford calls the "Push Start" TFI system, uses a gray TFI module. Originally, the module was mounted on the distributor. In the late '80s Ford began to relocate it away from the distributor on some vehicles to provide better protection from the effects of engine heat, but system operation remained the same. It uses a Hall effect pickup (stator) in the distributor, which generates a battery voltage, 50% duty cycle square wave, called the PIP signal, to the EEC-U PCM and the TFI module. The PCM processes this signal and sends out another battery voltage, 50% duty cycle square wave, called the SPOUT signal, to the TFI module. As long as the TFI module is receiving a SPOUT signal, it will fire the coil at the rising edge of that signal (except during engine cranking, when SPOUT is ignored) and the vehicle will run with the amount of timing advance commanded by the computer. If the TFI module does not receive the SPOUT signal, it will fire the coil at the rising edge of the PIP signal, a nd the vehicle will run at base timing. This is true on all TFI systems. Ignition dwell with the Push Start (gray module) system is controlled by the TFI module alone, and increases with engine rpm. The Ignition Diagnostic Monitor (IDM) signal on a Push Start TFI system comes from the coil negative circuit and is filtered through a 22k ohm resistor to pin #4 on the EEC-IV computer. The computer monitors this circuit to verify a coil firing for each PIP signal, and sets codes if it sees missing or erratic signals. Another feature that is unique to the Push Start TFI system is the start input on pin #4 of the module connector. This is wired into the starter relay trigger circuit, and signals the TFI module that the engine is cranking. When the module sees battery voltage on this circuit, the SPOUT signal is ignored.

This suppression resistor is usually taped to the wiring harness that is connected to the negative terminal of the ignition coil; usually located in the harness between the engine and the driver's side fender] This resistor is used to lower the voltage of the Tach signal being supplied to pin #4 of the ECM. This external resistor is not used on the CCD system since it is part of the internal circuitry of the module, which produces the IDM signal. So, the IDM signal travels from pin #4 of the module directly to pin #4 of the EEC-IV

Ignition Diagnostic Monitor (IDM) Resistor, 22K Ohm Overview & pic; "...This 22,000 ohm resistor is connected to the negative terminal of the coil primary in the Ignition Diagnostic Monitor (IDM) circuit connected to the PCM. Every time the PCM sends a SPOUT signal to the module to fire the coil, the PCM expects to see a voltage signal on the IDM line telling it the coil actually fired. If there’s no confirmation signal on the IDM circuit after the SPOUT signal is sent, the computer assumes that a misfire has occurred, and stores a trouble code. Don’t confuse the IDM with the operation of the OBD II Misfire Monitor..." Source: by wrenchead.ca

I have to roll now; check RockAuto.com; go thru the make, model year, engine drill; look under Ignition

or call local Ford dealer; I didn't see it listed in on-line catalog, but a friendly parts dept person will help.

Guessing that it is Ford pn E9DB-14A601-FA

Will check further

 

[miesk5]

yo,

See if this is it Hanging vertically to right of Red MSD Coil, pic by Booba5185

Next is to try a Self Test for Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC)s by my pal, BroncoJoe19 @ http://broncozone.com/topic/14269-code-reader/page__pid__74587__mode__threaded

The engine temperature must be greater than 50° F for the Key On Engine Off (KOEO) Self-Test and greater than 180° F for the Key On Engine Running (KOER) Self-Test.

Run it around to heat the engine up and shift thru all gears incl Reverse. Then turn off all accessories/lights, etc.

Make sure A/C is off and transmission is in Park (automatic) or in Neutral for a Manual & release clutch.

Do Key On Engine Off (KOEO) portion first.

Look Codes up in my broncolinks.com site using the new Search function.

And Post em here according to:

KOEO

&

KOER

--

and go through this TFI Troubleshooting Worksheet; miesk5 Note; this is the Grey Module

Source: by SeattleFSB (Seattle FSB) at SuperMotors.net



Wiring Diagram in 87-91 (from Factory Manual and the Ford Electrical & Vacuum Troubleshooting Manual (EVTM) Source: by Broncobill78 (Dave) at Ford Bronco Zone Forums

see the Ignition Diagnostic Monitor (IDM) Resistor, 22K Ohm w/DG/Y to EEC IV and W/LB from Ignition Coil Tach terminal

-------

Troubleshooting Tips, Distributor-Mounted; "...1. Verify charging system operation; specifically, charging voltage. 2. Verify ignition system operation; specifically, there are no open or disconnected plug wires. 3. Remove distributor cap and inspect connections where TFI module hooks to the Hall Effect Switch connector. If there is any sign of deterioration at the connector, the Hall Effect pickup must be replaced. Crankcase vapors are forced into the distributor due to excessive crankcase pressure due to a worn engine or an improperly maintained PCV system. The crankcase vapors cause deterioration of the insulation around the connectors causing the module to short out..."

Source: by napaechlin.com

Hazard Stumble TSB 88-16-16 for 87-88 Bronco & F Series; "...ISSUE: An engine miss or stumble when the headlamp hi-beams, hazard, stop or turn signals are turned "ON/OFF" may be caused by a voltage spike. A voltage spike may be induced into the EEC IV ignition system and read by the EEC IV processor as a PIP signal. This creates false timing information resulting in the miss or stumble. Vehicles that are used to pull trailers (electrical brake equipped) may have similar symptoms. ACTION: To correct this, install a ground strap between the battery negative (-) terminal and the radiator support bracket using existing attaching hardware or a #10 sheet metal *****..."

 

[cdubinit82]

I took a picture of the part that im talking about but i dont know how to download them to this page sorry but upon further inspecting i found that the packrat or field mice also chewed up a wire for the fuel injectors.the wire is under the big air intake or fuel injection thing(sorry i dont know what that part is called) but ill try to fix it tomorrow when i wake up but for now i gotta go to work.Thanks for the help.

 

[miesk5]

yo C,

to Post (pics) here;

Can you save the pic to your PC? or laptop?

If so,

In Reply Mode;

Scroll down to below in white message panel to the, Use Full Editor

Click it

A new screen will appear

Below white panel is a block titled, Click to Attach Files

Click it

In the pop-up Box, select Correct area where you saved the pic and find the pic,

Click on the pic

Then click Open or whatever your pc has there...

Then you'll see the pic title from your pc below white panel under Attachments

look to the right and Click

Add to Post

 

[cdubinit82]

well i got everything torn down and the fuel injector wire replace.Hopefully in the morning i can get everything put back together and she should be running like new.I did break one of the vac lines,Hopefully its not that important but i guess we'll find out tomorrow.

 

[miesk5]

yo,

Replace the vac line asap.

A vacuum leak will reduce intake vacuum and cause the MAP sensor to indicate a higher than normal load on the engine. The computer will try to compensate by richening the fuel mixture and retarding timing; and you'll also have a jhigh idle; & possibly heat ot air cond thru defrosters only

 

[cdubinit82]

yo miesk5, thanks alot bro cause i just would have left it off.when the auto parts store opens here in kansas ill go get a new vac line.

 

[cdubinit82]

alright i got everything put back together and the vacuum lines fixed but it wont stay running by its self.I think the timing condensor has something to do with it because if i unground it it runs.Any ideas?

 

[miesk5]

yo,

See if the original wiring is still in-place by looking @ colors & Routing in this Wiring Diagram in 87-91 (from Factory Manual and the Ford Electrical & Vacuum Troubleshooting Manual (EVTM)

Source: by Broncobill78 (Dave) at Ford Bronco Zone Forums

http://broncozone.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=6661

Do you have a multimeter and know how to check for continuity by disconnecting all shown in the ckt that includes the capacitor?

 

[cdubinit82]

yo miesk, i found another vac line broke so i replaced it and runs like new,Thanks homie! /