Poor Brakes

[Karl Ray]

I have had my early bronco now for a few months and I have come to terms with the fact that the stock brakes are nothing to brag about. I have read about the power boost option? Do those work with drum brakes or do I need to convert to disc? Also, is that bolt on or are ther major mods that must be done. I like to tinker but I am not highly skilled. What are my best options? Are most people converting to disc, or putting new drum brakes on.....any help is greatly appreciated!

 

[Bully Bob]

Ford did NOT design these rigs so as NOT to stop..!! [-X

Any 40 yr. old (& likely neglected) brake system will have issues.

If brought up to spec.., they'll stop on a dime, as mine does. (drums, no power assist)

Nothing wrong with boosters..., but, adding power to a weak system is not likely to achieve happy days. ("Use a bigger hammer" scenario)

However., pretty easy to install.

Discs are great but, these rigs aren't "Nascar"., or even "Drifters"

My rig stops with the same effort as my modern F150 with discs all 'round..! /

A trip to the library &/or some time on line, or a repair manual to study the proper ways to re-ferbish your brakes would be the cheapest/easiest solution. >< <'>

 

[Karl Ray]

Thanks Bully Bob. Makes much sense....I guess I better get to reading!

 

[Bully Bob]

Sometimes it comes down to the size of a guys wallet.

You can bleed out the dirty fluid, & clean up all 4 wheels for a few hundred $$

-OR- put out 1-2K for power &/or discs.

All the hardware (if not rotted) can be cleaned & re-used (springs, etc.).

If the drums aren't destroyed., they can be turned & the new shoes ground to fit. Re-built or new wheel cyl., clean lines & a flushed, good master cyl. .... it will stop like it was designed. >-

It's a fun 1 banana job.... >< <'>

 

[monza]

Hey Karl,

I have drums all round - with a Power Booster the previous owner put on there.

When the set up works it stops great.

However, my brakes are now fading badly - so I have the problem of diagnosing whether its the brake sys or the Power Boost thats faulty.

It makes for a more complicated problem - and that Power Boost is dependent on Vac pressure - and its a non serviceable unit - - blah - blah

I dont think Discs are necessary for normal usage,

If you have the cash - sure why not - but not needed.

I am liking Bobs point that these things were designed to stop - so a refurb of the orig system should get the job done - and keep it simple.

SO:

1. Do the BullyBob refurb (this is my next move).

2. IF you want even more instant stoppage - install a PB - the one from TBP installs with no mods to the bay (earlier PB's needed a bit of cutting inside the bay).

3. If you want to impress the ladieeeeez and lighten ur wallet - do the discs.

Monza. >-

 

[Bully Bob]

To check the booster.., (eng. runn'n) put your head up near the firewall while pressing brake pedal several times by hand. Listen for a hissss..!! -OR- an obvious change in eng. RPM.

These would indicate a leak. (some boosters are rebuildable)

For M/C ... apply press. by foot., if pedal slowly creeps downward., the M/C has an internal leak. Obviously, fluid on either side of firewall...ext. leak.

Other than that., the prob. would be in the wheel cyls. &/or shoes, drums & hardware.

 

[Scodge]

I hate to disagree with you guys, but front disk brakes are the best upgrade you can make, and it's not very expensive, and you don't need a power booster to make it work. If it's a choice between installing the front disks or installing a power booster, I'd definitely do the disks. The cost is about the same, but the difference after the disks is huge. Putting a booster on front drums will cause to problems: The drums will wear faster, need more frequent adjustment, and the booster will amplify any unbalance between the right and left wheels, especially in a panic stop. Disk brakes have huge advantages over drums. Shorter stopping distances, they are self cleaning, self adjusting, and way easier to service. Anybody who's ever done their own brakes with drums and disks knows what I'm talking about. By the time I got rid of my front drums 10 years ago, I was having a heard time finding a machine shop to turn them, I can't imagine that problem is getting better. Disk brakes are also way lighter, reducing your unsprung weight which makes your truck handle better.

And while disks may not be necessary for normal usage, neither is power steering (another great upgrade), bigger tires or a lifted suspension.

Monza: your drums probably need to be adjusted (tightened). You can do it with a ***** driver, but a brake spoon works much better. This is where the self adjusting part comes in very handy.

 

[monza]

Hey Scodge,

You know - most people seem to end up with Disks AND the Booster - which seems a little overkill - for my needs.

I never thought too much about Disks and NO booster - you have now got me thinking...

I actually have "most" of a disk upgrade sitting here in a bin - just need spindles and rotors.

BUT - until such time as I am going for a complete brake overhaul - I prefer the idea of servicing and adjusting the drums - much less hassle.

IF I am going for a complete overhaul - with the budget to do it right - I am now thinking Disks - NO booster. (I dont trust those boosters).

hmmmmm...

maybe when I get thru my double ended tie rod conversion.

Monza. >-

 

[Bully Bob]

Gentlemen.,

I don't think there's any disagreement here., just a different means to an end.

To be clear., I "LIKE" discs..!!

Power drum brakes have been around from the (approx.) 1950's up thru the 1980's & were "state of the art."

A properly maintained system worked perfectly, which makes the following incorrect;

"Putting a booster on front drums will cause problems: The drums will wear faster, need more frequent adjustment, and the booster will amplify any unbalance between the right and left wheels, especially in a panic stop."

Any neglected system will have issues, be it brakes (drum & disc) eng., trans., drivelines., cooling., etc.

I've seen many failed disc set-ups due to neglect, or parts failures. I've seen many a drum failures due to improper installation.

Many things "in play" here..! Knowledge, mech. experience, tools, Repair book, place to work, size of wallet., driving (bad) habits, etc.

For example; many folks don't realize when the spindles are pulled, the axles should be pulled, serviced, & new u-joints installed, or at least inspected. The spindle bearing as well., & the seals. (Assuming they've never been done) Otherwise one may have to start over again if a u-joint fails.

I bought my rig when I was in diapers... /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> :lol: :lol: and have run it hard for 20 yrs. SAME DRUMS & put on new shoes approx. 18 yrs. ago. I can't wait 'til the shoes wear down enough to replace again..!! Drums are still well with-in minimums.

Discs are GREAT & here to stay....however, a good drum set will get the job done quite well on these light trucks. Hydro or vac. assist is good as long as the drum sets are with-in specification.

 

[monza]

Bob,

Yeah - I think we are all in violent agreement about the fact that all brake solutions will work if in proper condition.

Some have more power, not essential, but more is more to some folks. Some cost way more to implement.

All need to be in proper condition to work effectively.

Often deficient brake systems have been repaired with a hop up to power, disks or power disks - without curing the underlying issues.

We all eat crazy Bronco spaghetti - that at least four other owners have been messing with.

Often its the skill of the owner that determines the best brake fix.

Me - I like it to be do-able in my Garage without specialist equipment and with only 30 mins research online.

I think this small thread contains pretty much ALL the valuable info and insights to different brake systems.

I am starting to feel the love for Discs with NO power booster.

I better understand how disc brakes work (from my bikes :lol: ), and I can get rid of that fat mechanical can of air in the engine bay that is just a mystery of possible failures. /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

I think we did well.

>-

Monza.

 

[Rons beast]

I've been reading this thread with interest. I usually tell people to do what they want to their rides, and have been critisized, (rightfully so) for doing so when safety is an issue. So I feel a need to add my thoughts.

I agree with Bully in that if a 4whl drum setup is in proper condition, it will work great.

That said, an upgrade to discs is a great idea but only if done correctly.

Someone earlier said most disc set ups came with boosters. There is a reason for that, disc brakes are NOT self energizing like drum brakes.

Also when converting to disc, the combination valve has to be changed to accomodate the proper hold off and preasure settings. Drum brakes require more fluid movement. Discs require more preasure. the combo valve gives the proper preasure balance,(bias) and holds off preasure to the front discs till the rear shoes expand a little.

Just adding discs can be a disaster waiting to happen. They may feel better in normal driving, but in a situation requiring hard braking The unbalance can throw the vehicle out of control.

Add a slick road from rain or snow and ......well you can imagine what can happen.

 

[Bully Bob]

Well said...!!! Thanks Ron..!!

Wish I'd have put it that way.....

BUT..., that mean ole' Monza gets me going off on tangents.... ( :lol:

Actually., this is pretty "profound" by Monza;

----- We all eat crazy Bronco spaghetti - that at least four other owners have been messing with. -----

Pretty good.., speaks volumes...!!!

Some of the things folks do to these rigs, "boggles the mind"

-- P.S. Hope we didn't loose Karl Ray.....

 

[monza]

NIce intervention Ron.

Perfect example of the power of a forum. /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

"...Just adding discs can be a disaster waiting to happen. They may feel better in normal driving, but in a situation requiring hard braking The unbalance can throw the vehicle out of control."

YIKES! :blink:

All that proportioning valve mojo is exactly the kind of tricksy I try to avoid - I like things simple. :blush:

I am definitely a learn by failing mechanic. )

Which is fine when its simple mechs - and not life threatening. /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

Hopefully Karl is soaking this all up.

Monza. >-

oh yeh Bob!

"mean ole Monza..." /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> (

 

[Bully Bob]

Monza said;

"All that proportioning valve mojo is exactly the kind of tricksy I try to avoid - I like things simple."

Just to be clear.... The propo. valve isn't a trick.., they're on most every veh. from the factory. The intent is to prevent braking lock-up/skid on one end, while the other end is still rolling..

Your EB likely/hopefully has one.

 

[monza]

Bob said:

Just to be clear.... The propo. valve isn't a trick.., they're on most every veh. from the factory. The intent is to prevent braking lock-up/skid on one end, while the other end is still rolling..

Your EB likely/hopefully has one.

Oh yeh,

I know - I even know where it is /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

I just dont want to be messin with it for a disk convo if I can refurb the drums...

Lazy AND simple. Thats me.

Monza. >-

 

[Rons beast]

Hey guys,

I did some research and it seems that now a few of the companies that offer disc conversions also offer a calibrated proportioning/ combo valve.

Guess some Lawyer types got a sniff of the scratch that can be had if suits arise from a bad "brake conversion" (no pun) and advised that the prop/combo should be part of the kit.

Classic Tube (www.classictube.com) has prop. and combo valves for most applications.

 

[Bully Bob]

WOW..!

Did we ever "hijack" Karl's thread...!!?? :blush:

No skin off my nose but, All the "Early Bronco" suppliers offered & pushed the proportioning valve as a replacement -or- with disc kits, even in my old catalogs.

Looked at an old James Duff cat. fr. the early '90's.... (think they were the first to offer front disc conversions)...they had/offered them then.

I looked at old "JEG'S", "PST" & "LMS" ....they had them on the disc conversion page.

Assume folks had the option to buy the valve elsewhere., or even get the adjustable one.., or a bone-yard part.

Some of the first EB disc conversions used GM parts.

I guess it's the old--"You can lead a horse to water............."

 

[Rons beast]

Guess it was a "marketing" idea. If it was not included in the kit, then it can be sold cheeper. I think the prop. valve is the most important part. I'm gonna think positive and say that they all assumed that anybody buying the kits would have the knowledge to get the valves as well.

BTW: sorry Karl

 

[Bully Bob]

Actually.,

I doubt Karl minds & he's probably following this. His thread got over 350 views in a week..! That's pretty amazing.., & I think everybody learned/benefited, picked up some tips from this. I know I did. >< <'>

"Onward & upward" ..!