'86 Bronco Air Conditioner System Replacement

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paul rondelli

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Though I agree with most everything you write, I'll have to take exception here.

No way no how can Rock Auto prices be compared to what a shop will charge.
  1. We don't shop online
  2. Rock Auto consistently sells comparable quality at rock-bottom prices below all others
  3. My source is the locally-owned jobber warehouse with prices well under wholesale to me and competitive, usually less than WorldPac prices, likely true of the independent shop owner majority
  4. A fair and honest markup will allow the shop to maintain 30% parts margins overall, a level that is mandatory for our survival
Most shops (at least in my world) will not install parts you provide as a general rule.
  • We cannot control quality
  • We cannot warrant those parts (which means it fails, you pay everything again to replace it, plus possibly storage charges for the downtime caused by your failed part)
  • And yes, because it shortchanges our profits, our margins
We are not just service providers, but retailers too. When a customer comes in and requests we install his internet-sourced parts because he thinks our prices are too high, it makes for a very uncomfortable transaction. He has basically (no, literally) told me he places little or no value on my craft, my standards. He already knows I will overcharge him, rip him off if he's not on his game by checking with Rock Auto before he sees my quote. Some will even flat out require we install his sourced parts or he'll take his business elsewhere.

I place great value on relationship in this business; funny as it may sound, relationship with cars, trucks and motorbikes for sure, and too with the folks behind their wheels and in their saddles. I want to be delighted to have their business and earn their trust, and too for them to be stoked to have found "my guy", amused how he talks to and coaxes their car, real pleased with the attention to detail and all the little extra love goes into every job, and eventually want to be a part of Motech's Scotch O'Clock circle every Friday evening once all the hoods are down.

That level of relationship is real hard to envision when it starts with blatant prejudice. Sure, I may try to explain why I cannot compete with online parts prices, maybe ask if they bring their own steak for the restaurant's chef to grill up for them to avoid their markup, but chances are higher they'd be met with an equally honest, maybe even prejudiced response back at them.

"Sorry, that won't work for me, but thanks for stopping by."

Most will just wollop them with a huge, discouraging quote off top of their heads to be done with them.

Would be a shame if someone with limited experience with professionals picks up and embraces that context here and projects it onto potentially great mechanics, only to become disillusioned with indifference and outrageous quotes, and with that expanding the public mistrust and suspicion most of us work real hard daily to dispel.

Thanks.

ABSOLUTELY

Most local places that do paint and body ... only like to do insurance work. You bring in your 30-year-old ride and just want a decent cost-effective paint job ..... they will quote you 12,000 just to get you out of there.

You can generate repeat customers by turning wrenches and establishing good relationships ..... but how many repeat customers for a full paint job with body work?

Most folks (with good income) just drive their rides for 5 years .... you can find a whale that restores cars for his collection .... but most of them are very hard to please.
 

L\Bronco

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Though I agree with most everything you write, I'll have to take exception here.

No way no how can Rock Auto prices be compared to what a shop will charge.
  1. We don't shop online
  2. Rock Auto consistently sells comparable quality at rock-bottom prices below all others
  3. My source is the locally-owned jobber warehouse with prices well under wholesale to me and competitive, usually less than WorldPac prices, likely true of the independent shop owner majority
  4. A fair and honest markup will allow the shop to maintain 30% parts margins overall, a level that is mandatory for our survival
Most shops (at least in my world) will not install parts you provide as a general rule.
  • We cannot control quality
  • We cannot warrant those parts (which means it fails, you pay everything again to replace it, plus possibly storage charges for the downtime caused by your failed part)
  • And yes, because it shortchanges our profits, our margins
We are not just service providers, but retailers too. When a customer comes in and requests we install his internet-sourced parts because he thinks our prices are too high, it makes for a very uncomfortable transaction. He has basically (no, literally) told me he places little or no value on my craft, my standards. He already knows I will overcharge him, rip him off if he's not on his game by checking with Rock Auto before he sees my quote. Some will even flat out require we install his sourced parts or he'll take his business elsewhere.

I place great value on relationship in this business; funny as it may sound, relationship with cars, trucks and motorbikes for sure, and too with the folks behind their wheels and in their saddles. I want to be delighted to have their business and earn their trust, and too for them to be stoked to have found "my guy", amused how he talks to and coaxes their car, real pleased with the attention to detail and all the little extra love goes into every job, and eventually want to be a part of Motech's Scotch O'Clock circle every Friday evening once all the hoods are down.

That level of relationship is real hard to envision when it starts with blatant prejudice. Sure, I may try to explain why I cannot compete with online parts prices, maybe ask if they bring their own steak for the restaurant's chef to grill up for them to avoid their markup, but chances are higher they'd be met with an equally honest, maybe even prejudiced response back at them.

"Sorry, that won't work for me, but thanks for stopping by."

Most will just wollop them with a huge, discouraging quote off top of their heads to be done with them.

Would be a shame if someone with limited experience with professionals picks up and embraces that context here and projects it onto potentially great mechanics, only to become disillusioned with indifference and outrageous quotes, and with that expanding the public mistrust and suspicion most of us work real hard daily to dispel.

Thanks.
I've just gotta chime in here.
That was very well said Motech!
I'm going to try not to support or bash on anyone here.
Its simply 2 different demographics.
If you are willing and ABLE to do it yourself, then go whatever route suits you, Just know that although Rock auto undercuts everyone's pricing, (I bought most of the parts for my 6.2 build there) The quality is not controllable and if anything comes into question, there is no person to talk to to straighten the mess out. Plus you are at the mercy of the shipping monsters. the success rate is around 80% in my experience.
If you need or want the job to be done by professionals, they are holding the entire bag for the repair. (warranty, reputation, profitability...ect)
I feel its ludicrous for a consumer to try and have his cake and eat it too (so to speak) and try to control the situation there.
If any issues arise, you can be damn sure they wont stand beside the shop in the process. (The division gets very clear again for some strange reason...)
So if you aren't able to fix it yourself, ask around, shop around, and if you find someone trustworthy, hold on tight!!
There are lots of shops who do the shoo high and you may go away game. I'm definitely not a fan of this one but, I understand from the business owners standpoint, (If you think about some of the people they have to deal with in these situations.) Sometimes they are just D I C K S too! (That can be applied to both parties)
Sorry for the rant,
This one drives me crazy!

Cheers
 

goodO1boydws

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Though I agree with most everything you write, I'll have to take exception here.

No way no how can Rock Auto prices be compared to what a shop will charge.
  1. We don't shop online
  2. Rock Auto consistently sells comparable quality at rock-bottom prices below all others
  3. My source is the locally-owned jobber warehouse with prices well under wholesale to me and competitive, usually less than WorldPac prices, likely true of the independent shop owner majority
  4. A fair and honest markup will allow the shop to maintain 30% parts margins overall, a level that is mandatory for our survival
Most shops (at least in my world) will not install parts you provide as a general rule.
  • We cannot control quality
  • We cannot warrant those parts (which means it fails, you pay everything again to replace it, plus possibly storage charges for the downtime caused by your failed part)
  • And yes, because it shortchanges our profits, our margins
We are not just service providers, but retailers too. When a customer comes in and requests we install his internet-sourced parts because he thinks our prices are too high, it makes for a very uncomfortable transaction. He has basically (no, literally) told me he places little or no value on my craft, my standards. He already knows I will overcharge him, rip him off if he's not on his game by checking with Rock Auto before he sees my quote. Some will even flat out require we install his sourced parts or he'll take his business elsewhere.

I place great value on relationship in this business; funny as it may sound, relationship with cars, trucks and motorbikes for sure, and too with the folks behind their wheels and in their saddles. I want to be delighted to have their business and earn their trust, and too for them to be stoked to have found "my guy", amused how he talks to and coaxes their car, real pleased with the attention to detail and all the little extra love goes into every job, and eventually want to be a part of Motech's Scotch O'Clock circle every Friday evening once all the hoods are down.

That level of relationship is real hard to envision when it starts with blatant prejudice. Sure, I may try to explain why I cannot compete with online parts prices, maybe ask if they bring their own steak for the restaurant's chef to grill up for them to avoid their markup, but chances are higher they'd be met with an equally honest, maybe even prejudiced response back at them.

"Sorry, that won't work for me, but thanks for stopping by."

Most will just wollop them with a huge, discouraging quote off top of their heads to be done with them.

Would be a shame if someone with limited experience with professionals picks up and embraces that context here and projects it onto potentially great mechanics, only to become disillusioned with indifference and outrageous quotes, and with that expanding the public mistrust and suspicion most of us work real hard daily to dispel.

Thanks.


Motech, I agree with almost everything you say and raise you one.

I bow to your level of upfront honesty, disclosure, and integrity, all of which are increasingly rare these days, especially in combination.
I'll wager that you also have a large number of happy repeat customers who get their vehicles in and out in a timely manner-with work completed as promised.

We ran a small business for a number of years, and I'm well aware of the many "extra" hours and days, and skipped vacations, that most conscientious business owners put in. As well as the customer service aspects, the deadlines, payroll, estimates/hard quotes, record keeping for taxes prep. (for years without computers), all the overhead costs involved in setting labor rates, supply chain problems, guarantees, labor issues, situations involving subed out associated work (and contracted in) etc., etc.

As I wrote, we're in an exceptional situation here-with the local shop owner himself living in our sparsely peopled rural community. (What I failed to mention is that its also one that has an largely low income populace.)

Using rockauto as a reference as to what a dedicated a/c shop is liable to be paying for their parts and using that as a guide to help determine parts markup, is, I feel, legitimate.
What was left unsaid is that a large VOLUME shop is liable to get better parts discounting than a smaller one would, and to also keep that in mind.

Labor rates are determined not only by the location and overhead, but also by what the market will bear, which can be reasonable, well-considered, and uniform, or outrageous and capricious, determined by what different customers are thought to be willing to pay for the same work done in the same time frame.
The latter tend to be the same ones who view customers as dollar signs and dealing with them a necessary evil.

An example of this is a tire shop in town nearby us, earlier this year.
I requested a quote for some front end work on a 1989 Crown Vic, including a front end alignment after the work was done.
This was a repeat quote for one I had gotten about 5 months earlier at the same place for the identical work. The original quote was about $250 labor, plus $49.00 for the alignment, not including parts.

The second quote was over $700. including $99.00 for alignment.
I asked why so much of a change in their labor rate.
"New owners."
(Store had been sold, now its a chain-owned store, but retaining the same name and signage.)
Ok, I said, but why is the alignment so much-its only a RWD vehicle?
Isn't that a mistake?
"No. ALL alignments are $99.00."

I don't have need for automotive HVAC work often (thank goodness), but I wish that we lived a lot closer to you-in Cali.
(Not just because my sister lives near San Diego and brother near Seattle.)
 
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Motech

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I don't have need for automotive HVAC work often (thank goodness), but I wish that we lived a lot closer to you-in Cali.
(Not just because my sister lives near San Diego and brother near Seattle.)
Ha! There's a flip-flop here in that.

I spent much of my youth reared in the Appellation hills of western Virginia/Eastern Tennessee. My kin is near Honaker, VA, closest big town is Lebanon. (cousin's husband is a Honaker, so their offspring are Honakers too now)
Brothers and stepfather all live(d) in Tri-City area, my baby brother the last surviving in the Tennessee side of Bristol. When I fly in to visit, I'll land in Knoxville, taxi over to Kodak, spend the night there then pick up a motorcycle rental from Eagle Rider next morning for the duration of my stay.

I love the country back there! Beautiful land, engaging and embracing populace, and impeccably engineered, silky smooth ribbons of curvy asphalt that compel a rider to take the long way everywhere.

California is stunningly beautiful too, with world class byways rivaling anywhere else on the globe. But road maintenance is secondary here, and yours are world class compared to our cobbled surface patchwork.

Funny the proximity to Seattle and San Diego you project. They each represent the outermost north and south regions of the west coast, with the coast bring the only common feature. Outside that, the distances are more like NYC to your north and Jacksonville south of you. Not so tight there!
 

Motech

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You can generate repeat customers by turning wrenches and establishing good relationships ..... but how many repeat customers for a full paint job with body work?

Very true, but very distinct marketing differences.

Mechanics generate repeat customers with two consistent elements:
  1. Convenience (less drama)
  2. Consistence (trust)
Body shops, like you say, are not dependent on repeat customers. The ones they have are the exception, and relationship drives those connections.

They are dependent on insurance companies, where procedural and budgetary efficiency are key, with customer convenience not a consideration outside of completion timelines.

Makes for a very different customer relations philosophy.
 

goodO1boydws

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Ha! There's a flip-flop here in that.

I spent much of my youth reared in the Appellation hills of western Virginia/Eastern Tennessee. My kin is near Honaker, VA, closest big town is Lebanon. (cousin's husband is a Honaker, so their offspring are Honakers too now)
Brothers and stepfather all live(d) in Tri-City area, my baby brother the last surviving in the Tennessee side of Bristol. When I fly in to visit, I'll land in Knoxville, taxi over to Kodak, spend the night there then pick up a motorcycle rental from Eagle Rider next morning for the duration of my stay.

I love the country back there! Beautiful land, engaging and embracing populace, and impeccably engineered, silky smooth ribbons of curvy asphalt that compel a rider to take the long way everywhere.

California is stunningly beautiful too, with world class byways rivaling anywhere else on the globe. But road maintenance is secondary here, and yours are world class compared to our cobbled surface patchwork.

Funny the proximity to Seattle and San Diego you project. They each represent the outermost north and south regions of the west coast, with the coast bring the only common feature. Outside that, the distances are more like NYC to your north and Jacksonville south of you. Not so tight there!
 

goodO1boydws

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Its not the proximity between Seattle and San Diego.
Its the difference in distance being located somewhere between them, compared to that from here to either of them.
I've acquired a fair idea of distances between some places.

The Seattle bro lived in Alameda for a few years early in his Coast Guard career, (and Alaska, and Hawaii, DC, and Virginia) so I've heard from a "local" about roads and road maintenance in all sorts of areas, and that its (fill the blank) in Cali.
A friend of ours is a long haul trucker who confirms it being even worse in LA than in Manhattan. Actually, when were were in Manhattan I didn't think it was very bad at all-but then we weren't in a semi with a 52' box.

(The same bro says that so many Cali expats are moving up into and through Oregon that enough end up by him and are building McMansions that his property taxes have skyrocketed.)

Personally, I've chalked your road condition situation being from having so dang many cars and trucks on the main roads during the daytime that the only time most road construction and maintenance CAN get done is in the middle of the nights-and even then only when the weather is bad enough most people stay put. (Which admittedly isn't often, I write enviously.)
And apparently most road workers just don't do their best work then.

My other sib/bro still lives close in to Chicago. Second City (now 3rd) is where we all started from. Some people just never learn........
Seems there were (and still are) only 2 seasons back there-Winter and Road RE-Construction.

I like having 4 similarly long seasons, particularly if its (relatively) cold and snowy just once in a while-and here even a foot or more of snow at a time just doesn't last very long. Ice storms do happen here a couple times a year that hardly ever did there.

The first Winter here we had about 16" in one go and I was out shoveling a path to the mailbox in a tee shirt the next day-when it was 50 degrees. But up North it was nice white snow that usually starts to accumulate in late November, and very soon turns grey, ever-growing-taller-and-wider dirty snow/ice piles everywhere, accompanied by black ice and icy slush oin roads that can all last into April-which just isn't my cuppa anymore.

Even my parents eventually moved away from there...first to New Orleans (and left before the worst her&himicanes hit) and then to Oak Ridge.
 
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Sounds like theres several folks here needing AC components. Mine was holding and working in my 1981 but i gutted the system for more accessibility to the engine and airflow to the radiator.

I saved all the stuff and would sell all/parts if interested. Not sure about the shipping hassle but thought id offer to interested parties.
 

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