'86 Bronco Air Conditioner System Replacement

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GDR1958

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I recently purchased an '86 Bronc 6-300 4x4 and have just started going through mechanicals...Most things are original and in pretty good shape...EXCEPT the air conditioning system...had a mechanic friend adapt fittings for recharge...and he said it leaked everywhere...(inside & out) So, while many are deleting their ac systems, I'd like to repair/replace mine...and looks like a rebuild of all major components…Would really appreciate any recommendations on process and especially replacement parts availability...
 

chrlsful

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lill '04 honda = 1,100$ to refurbish, not fun. While some of that was for labor (1/4) condenser and compressor arent cheep. Venting refrigerant into the atmosphere is not healthy for humans and other living things so some equip is necessary. My shop has none of it (I can charge ur system & see pressure, place dye in to view leaks - 2 first steps B4 major diagnosis and repair) but really shouldn't do beyond this. 2010 is 1st yr to include that non-harmful refrigerant. I think it's illegal to vent any B4 that era of make.
 

mikefamig

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I have an 89 that needs A/C repair so I'm hoping that you get some helpful replies here. My system is still R12 and I got a rough estimate of $2500.00 to convert it and that is not considering any repairs. Ouch! I have the gauges and vacuum pump and some R12 to service it but I also am concerned about putting R12 in the atmosphere.

Mike.
 

chrlsful

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"...concerned bout venting R12 into the atmosphere..."
good 4 u Mike, seems too late 4 GDR.
U must do a great deal of research'n learnin. I doubt U have the
right equp tho as it's expensive. Guy who did mine is a full new skol mechanic and wealthy (100K$ thru the shop each yr, 2 tube chassy race cars, a son he sent thru mecanic skol, etc). One of his mo`chenes vaced my system, filled it to the right pressire (50 lbs). My tanks/double gauge head cant do that.
Put in the dye, use the 'black lite' a wk later to see where the leaks are. Have some1 **** ur system out. Repair, go back to him to fill it???
 
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GDR1958

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I have an 89 that needs A/C repair so I'm hoping that you get some helpful replies here. My system is still R12 and I got a rough estimate of $2500.00 to convert it and that is not considering any repairs. Ouch! I have the gauges and vacuum pump and some R12 to service it but I also am concerned about putting R12 in the atmosphere.

Mike.
Unfortunately, I have not yet received any substantive replies on this post, regarding recommendations on strategy or replacement part sourcing...I have had better luck on a couple of Facebook Bronco/6cyl 300 groups...As you might guess, there have been almost as many different recommendations as peoples replies...Since I am ill equipped to undertake the repairs myself, I am left with no option but to find a shop willing and competent to do the work...If and as the parts are available, I expect it to be expensive...
 

Tiha

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Swapping to R134 with factory R12 components will work okay. Other option would be to find a newer truck and install the parts from that. There might be kits available as well for retrofits with higher efficiency Condensers.

R134 doesn't leak like R12 so the system doesn't need to be perfect. When he says it leaks everywhere, that really doesn't make sense.

Compressor, yeah probably leaks. Spring lock connectors, yeah probably need new o-rings. None of that is a big deal.

Problem with putting R134 in a R12 system is the R134 likes a lot higher pressures so the compressors don't usually last very long. Not just because of the higher pressures but because of the crappy parts available to us now a days.

When I did conversions frequently I would flush the system with something like lacquer thinner. Install new accumulator, orifice tube (one made for R134) Pull vacuum, add new oil and charge.
The vent temps were always close to R12 values but the pressures were higher.

One trick that really helps is lowering the low pressure cutout. If you unplug the low pressure cutout switch located on the accumulator you will see a flat ***** head. Back it off, turn counter clockwise about 1/2 turn.
When you start charging you will see the low side pressure drop when the compressor kicks on. The compressor will kick off when that switch opens. You want it to open around 10psi. Little less is fine.

Now charge the system, hopefully with the rpms increased to 1000-1200 rpms. Charge until the inlet and outlet of the evaporator are the same temperature. That is as good as it will get. You don't need weight of freon or any other information.

If you want to improve the life of your compressor you can add an electric fan to the front of the condenser to help keep pressures lower.
 

paul rondelli

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AC repair ....... consisting of pulling and replacing components is a 'no win" situation now a days for a weekend wrench turner

My 2010 Focus had a bad evaporator. Shop wanted 1,000 to replace. ***** THAT.

I pulled the entire dash out and did it myself.

The issue is the 150$ charge for refill.

1) test system to find leak with dye $150
2) replace components... then Vac and refill $150

I replaced everything while it was all out. Evaporator/condenser/compressor/accumulator. I cheeped out on the parts from 4 seasons with Rock auto.

It just wasn't blowing cold enough after the repair. Turns out the Chinese compressor was putting out low pressure. Pull the compressor back out and replace with the factory parts.

3) refill system $150

That is close to 500 bucks for some ****** to hook up a few gauges.

***** that ..... I wont go down that rode again.

I will pay a shop to complete the repairs next time. They put you over a barrel with the federal emissions.
 

goodO1boydws

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I recently purchased an '86 Bronc 6-300 4x4 and have just started going through mechanicals...Most things are original and in pretty good shape...EXCEPT the air conditioning system...had a mechanic friend adapt fittings for recharge...and he said it leaked everywhere...(inside & out) So, while many are deleting their ac systems, I'd like to repair/replace mine...and looks like a rebuild of all major components…Would really appreciate any recommendations on process and especially replacement parts availability...

Actually the changeover from R12 to R34a WOULD NOT BE very expensive, if you didn't have leaks.

THE SMARTEST, MOST COST EFFECTIVE THING TO DO RIGHT NOW IS TO PRESSURIZE THE SYSTEM AND SEE WHERE THE LEAKS ARE BY USING DYE.


When I had my first car switched over to R134a done, they told me that SEVERAL o rings were routinely replaced because THOSE are a common cause of leaks. Also they installed a new TYPE OF orifice tube. There are several o rings and seals that are NOT inside the compressor that could be leaking. There are even some on the schrader valves (where you add refrigerant and test system pressure.

Anyway, for parts, even though they are reasonably easy to get, I'd look at rockauto.com for pricing if I was considering replacing a compressor & dryer, and/or lines, and/or a condenser myself-or even elsewhere. If only to get a rough idea of what the parts WOULD be costing whoever does the job, as THEY most likely won't be paying retail. That way, you'll have a rough idea of how much they mark up parts.

More to the point concerning your particular vehicle.
I had an 134a conversion done from R12 on a 1986 Bronco but it is a Bronco 2. However I can't see that Ford would have bothered to use any a/c parts out of the ordinary for the B2 seeing as from the firewall forward its essentially a Ranger (like the big Bronc and F150 were back then).

The ONLY PARTS the shop needed to change on mine (other than the charging /testing fittings, were very minor, and inexpensive.
It was some O rings and an inserted-type /metering device/orifice. The new orifice tube is a different type one from the original. the newer one improves a/c performance at lower engine rpm. Its sometimes labelled for extremely hot climates. (It is a variable valve and the original one is a fixed valve.)

Anyway, they were able to reclaim the R-12 and gave me SOME credit for that, (R12 being relatively expensive) and the total for that job was under $150.00 most of which was their labor, as R134a WAS and IS cheap. This is an HONEST, independent shop. They asked me up front if I just wanted a working system or a completely new one.

Of course this was several years ago-(maybe 6-8?), so I'd expect the work to be more like $200.00-250 by now as labor rates, materials and parts undoubtedly have gone up since.

the price breakdown included :
draining the R12
switching over the parts
running a vacuum pump for maybe an hour to remove any residual R-12 and moisture-and to be sure there were no leaks
and then installing the R134a (with compressor oil)


IN YOUR CASE THOUGH, The odds are very good that the condenser is still good, and the crossflow type condenser with the very large passages used back then CAN be successfully flushed/cleaned to remove all traces of R12.

My 1986 B2's a/c has run now ever since, STILL with all the major original parts-compressor, condenser, lines, and dryer.
I think I MAY have added some R134a myself since then, but I'm not sure, as its not driven very often anymore. I know I added it to my 1989 Crown Vic., my daily driver, which was also changed over by them-but which needed a compressor.

Pricewise the compressor is first, then condenser, then evaporator, then lines and drier then R134a.

If your system has already leaked down,. The release of the original or R12 or R134a is moot.
 

goodO1boydws

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I have an 89 that needs A/C repair so I'm hoping that you get some helpful replies here. My system is still R12 and I got a rough estimate of $2500.00 to convert it and that is not considering any repairs. Ouch! I have the gauges and vacuum pump and some R12 to service it but I also am concerned about putting R12 in the atmosphere.
Repeat after me
,
"I will NEVER go back to that shop."

Rough estimate yeah-rough on YOU.

$2500 to "convert" it without including any repairs (no major replaced parts) is ridiculous.

(Maybe not for a concours Rolls Royce.......)
 

mikefamig

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Repeat after me
,
"I will NEVER go back to that shop."

Rough estimate yeah-rough on YOU.

$2500 to "convert" it without including any repairs (no major replaced parts) is ridiculous.

(Maybe not for a concours Rolls Royce.......)

What is a reasonable estimate?

Mike.
 

mikefamig

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Actually the changeover from R12 to R34a WOULD NOT BE very expensive, if you didn't have leaks.

THE SMARTEST, MOST COST EFFECTIVE THING TO DO RIGHT NOW IS TO PRESSURIZE THE SYSTEM AND SEE WHERE THE LEAKS ARE BY USING DYE.


When I had my first car switched over to R134a done, they told me that SEVERAL o rings were routinely replaced because THOSE are a common cause of leaks. Also they installed a new TYPE OF orifice tube. There are several o rings and seals that are NOT inside the compressor that could be leaking. There are even some on the schrader valves (where you add refrigerant and test system pressure.

Anyway, for parts, even though they are reasonably easy to get, I'd look at rockauto.com for pricing if I was considering replacing a compressor & dryer, and/or lines, and/or a condenser myself-or even elsewhere. If only to get a rough idea of what the parts WOULD be costing whoever does the job, as THEY most likely won't be paying retail. That way, you'll have a rough idea of how much they mark up parts.

More to the point concerning your particular vehicle.
I had an 134a conversion done from R12 on a 1986 Bronco but it is a Bronco 2. However I can't see that Ford would have bothered to use any a/c parts out of the ordinary for the B2 seeing as from the firewall forward its essentially a Ranger (like the big Bronc and F150 were back then).

The ONLY PARTS the shop needed to change on mine (other than the charging /testing fittings, were very minor, and inexpensive.
It was some O rings and an inserted-type /metering device/orifice. The new orifice tube is a different type one from the original. the newer one improves a/c performance at lower engine rpm. Its sometimes labelled for extremely hot climates. (It is a variable valve and the original one is a fixed valve.)

Anyway, they were able to reclaim the R-12 and gave me SOME credit for that, (R12 being relatively expensive) and the total for that job was under $150.00 most of which was their labor, as R134a WAS and IS cheap. This is an HONEST, independent shop. They asked me up front if I just wanted a working system or a completely new one.

Of course this was several years ago-(maybe 6-8?), so I'd expect the work to be more like $200.00-250 by now as labor rates, materials and parts undoubtedly have gone up since.

the price breakdown included :
draining the R12
switching over the parts
running a vacuum pump for maybe an hour to remove any residual R-12 and moisture-and to be sure there were no leaks
and then installing the R134a (with compressor oil)


IN YOUR CASE THOUGH, The odds are very good that the condenser is still good, and the crossflow type condenser with the very large passages used back then CAN be successfully flushed/cleaned to remove all traces of R12.

My 1986 B2's a/c has run now ever since, STILL with all the major original parts-compressor, condenser, lines, and dryer.
I think I MAY have added some R134a myself since then, but I'm not sure, as its not driven very often anymore. I know I added it to my 1989 Crown Vic., my daily driver, which was also changed over by them-but which needed a compressor.

Pricewise the compressor is first, then condenser, then evaporator, then lines and drier then R134a.

If your system has already leaked down,. The release of the original or R12 or R134a is moot.

That is incredible, I'd have it repaired in a heartbeat if I thought I could do it for a couple of hundred dollars.

Mike.
 

goodO1boydws

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What is a reasonable estimate?

Mike.
For doing what?

What you should be looking for is a place willing to give you a price to find out what is actually wrong before getting any more wild ass guesstimates.

Unless there are things that are so obviously bad by a close visual examination and listening, such as a compressor clutch that won't turn freely, a seized compressor, squealing compressor or seized idler bearing, cut/seriously cracked hoses, or physical holes in the condenser, chewed/cut or missing wiring to activate the compressor, that a system test cannot be done, and repair have to be don just to get TO that point, NOBODY will be able to begin to tell you which parts if any need to be replaced, (besides those I already mentioned in my previous reply).

For someone to do the leak inspection and system diagnostics thoroughly enough to help you know what needs replacing and what does not, (and if its worth doing) I'd plan on about 2 hours of their labor and a couple/few pounds of R134a & dye to check things out. That is IF the system can hold pressure high enough and long enough to check the compressor out, and see if its working decently. Without being able to do that, the compressor's viability would still be an open question.

The system pressure has to be reasonably ok before the compressor clutch will even try to engage. That is a designed-in safety measure that greatly lessens the potential for compressor damage. In the short term.

However, you're not out of the woods on that score yet, because if a formerly-still-good compressor has been low on refrigerant and just sitting there for a couple years without even rotating for a couple seconds at a time once in a while, it could very well be seized. As could the compressor clutch if the engine hasn't been started often enough to keep THAT free.

Labor costs vary tremendously across the country. But as a general guide after the Summer cooling season abates, and before "heater weather" sets in is typically the Fall/seasonal sweet spot. And also, once they're no longer jammed up with a/c work, you're more likely to find a place with open time to get your truck in SOON and out quickly. If it needs major work or not.
 
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mikefamig

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The initial idea was for an estimate to convert r12 to r34 or whatever gas they are using now not considering any repairs. Nothing wild ass about that. This particular garage told me that the last one that they did cost $2100.

Mike.
 

goodO1boydws

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Lets see.

You asked for an estimate to do a R12 to R134a changeover based on not having to replace any major parts, right?

Did he ever do that?
You didn't mention it if he did.

However off the top of his head he somehow mystically arrives at a "guess" of:
it would/could/might be $2500 to do yours.
Hmmm.

How so? (because?) "the last one I did was $2100.00".
Well fine, that's what the other one cost.

BUT what does "the last one" he did have to do with yours?
Did THAT LAST ONE have only 46,000 miles and was IT ALSO kept in a heated garage?

Since his "skybox seating" price for yours was HIGHER, I guess not.
IT probably only had 39,000 miles and was kept in someone's house.

Does this seem as silly to you as it does to me?

As I wrote, first find out what is actually wrong.... with YOURS.
THEN get an estimate.
 

Tiha

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For a shop that doesn't know how to do conversions it is always a safe bet to just change everything, so can't really blame them for that, or maybe they are trying to price themselves out of doing it.

Regardless, if you can find a shop that has done a few it will be far cheaper.
 

Motech

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I just put together a very accurate, itemized quote for an R134A conversion of a V-8 Bronco (I6 would be a little different, but not enough to calculate tonight) with worst possible scenario, ie: Every major AC component replaced including compressor with clutch, condenser, evaporator, accumulator, both hoses, cycling switch and connector, upgraded service valves, serpentine belt, etc... At my B-Level shop rate (120.00 hr) and "wholesale" parts pricing matrix (reduced markup to average prices matching those charged in local parts stores), and including initial R-12 evaluation, this job does comes out very high:
  • Labor: $900.00
  • Parts: $1353.36
  • Sales Tax: $125.19 (gotta love California)
  • Total: $2378.55
Eee-YEOW DAD!

Now again, this is worst possible scenario, but it could still get worse. Wiring and relays are unaddressed, as are blower motor, thermal fan clutch, inner control systems and vacuum line/reservoir integrity. Then--cuz it's old--breakage of stuff, especially plastic dash stuff that never survives R&R procedures totally unscathed, and there are enough risky issues that I'd likely add a 10% buffer just in case, so this would be a $2600.00 quote then.

I'd have a REAL hard time selling that job, even to a silicone valley millionaire dumping mad money on the trendy Bronco bandwagon.

@Tiha is spot-on too with the pros and cons of R134A conversions. Yes, they require higher pressures. Yes, R134 has less molecular density than R12, so it has a tendancy to leak quicker than R12.

And...AND... Something easily overlooked as we don't change climates so much, but R134A cooling efficiency in high temps begins to fade as humidity climbs.

Not a problem here in Santa Cruz where our average highs are 63*F in winter and 76*F in summer, and humidity averages from 68 to 73% year round.
Same with Cincinnati, with (relatively) comfortable humidity at levels peaking at 75% or so in summer, but higher summer temps in the mid-high eighties and it starts to get a bit muggy just as R134A systems begin to overtax.
But everywhere else from the Midwest to the South hitting 90% humidity and 90 to 100*F, that's air you wear man, and converted R134A systems will let you down big time!
(Note the CONVERTED disclaimer. Cars built with R134 systems got better and better, all excellent now in the 21st century)

For this major downside to R134A conversions, and the prohibitively high cost of conversion, I would break with most every other pro and talk you into reconditioning your R12 system.
  • Evaluate
  • Fix leaks
  • Charge and reevaluate
  • Address other issues as needed
  • Chill out
With history of hose issues, plus accumulator and orifice tube, complete flush, evacuate and recharge, most eighties Broncos and F-Series with neglected systems are likely back in service with mid-30s AC output air temp in ALL climates for right around a grand. And it's only that high because R12 accounts for around $370.00 in the parts column.

Brevitized:
Find the shop who has the stones to sell you R12.
It's not outlawed or banned, it's just been prohibited in new cars for a few decades now so DuPont could puff their margins.
 

Motech

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PS:
These high professional quotes are all borne of the same context: CYA. If a shop is going to stand behind a warranty, all contingencies must be covered.
With that, most of us are unwilling to "compromise" our warranty "standards" in favor of delivering better value to you.
AC systems, especially old ones, and converted to boot, will not remain impeccable no matter what. With that, it's stoopid to warrant performance of a system that, once converted and replenished, will disappoint the end user one way or another.
I am guilty of such paranoia too sometimes.
But I am NOT guilty of insulting your (my clientele's) intelligence by hiding my anxieties behind puffy declarations of superior standards and elevated integrity.
We can all understand that performance can not be warranted beyond what we sell and install.
It is NOT cutting corners to do just what it takes to reliably blow cold.
I am not on a such a higher plane of integrity that I believe that YOU believe such bull sheet when we shotgun an estimate to preserve our own accountability (warranty)
Fork no.
What do you want, cold AC with $1600.00 left over in your account to invest in the righteous Bronco upgrades?
Or that much poorer with a performance warranty?
All I'll warrant on jobs like this is what the supplier will warrant their parts for. Your hose fails, it's free. That's it. No labor or refrigerant, just the failed part.
I mean, I'm an insecure old bass tart and need you to like me.
 

Motech

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maybe they are trying to price themselves out of doing it.

Oh yes, Bingo Bob!

With the real fat margins in maintenance of modern cars, resurrecting old gems is always way down in the profitability range. It's got to be a labor of love on this end too.
When it's not, it's easier to reel you into some puffed up, untenable standards and gaslight you right out the door questioning yours than it is to just say, "Sorry, this won't work for me. I'm just not into it. But tell you what, go see Motech. He's like Mikey..."
 

johnnyreb

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Its what I liked about the pre--46 model vehicles. Just crank out the windshield. . Their is when you get cool fresh air and no high maintaince of anny ac. Awhile back I just typed in 1978 FORD BRONCO AIR CONDITION PARTS-----in the address bar and their was alot of companys that sold old new parts and reasonable price. Try that.
 

Motech

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Anyway, for parts, even though they are reasonably easy to get, I'd look at rockauto.com for pricing if I was considering replacing a compressor & dryer, and/or lines, and/or a condenser myself-or even elsewhere. If only to get a rough idea of what the parts WOULD be costing whoever does the job, as THEY most likely won't be paying retail. That way, you'll have a rough idea of how much they mark up parts.

Though I agree with most everything you write, I'll have to take exception here.

No way no how can Rock Auto prices be compared to what a shop will charge.
  1. We don't shop online
  2. Rock Auto consistently sells comparable quality at rock-bottom prices below all others
  3. My source is the locally-owned jobber warehouse with prices well under wholesale to me and competitive, usually less than WorldPac prices, likely true of the independent shop owner majority
  4. A fair and honest markup will allow the shop to maintain 30% parts margins overall, a level that is mandatory for our survival
Most shops (at least in my world) will not install parts you provide as a general rule.
  • We cannot control quality
  • We cannot warrant those parts (which means it fails, you pay everything again to replace it, plus possibly storage charges for the downtime caused by your failed part)
  • And yes, because it shortchanges our profits, our margins
We are not just service providers, but retailers too. When a customer comes in and requests we install his internet-sourced parts because he thinks our prices are too high, it makes for a very uncomfortable transaction. He has basically (no, literally) told me he places little or no value on my craft, my standards. He already knows I will overcharge him, rip him off if he's not on his game by checking with Rock Auto before he sees my quote. Some will even flat out require we install his sourced parts or he'll take his business elsewhere.

I place great value on relationship in this business; funny as it may sound, relationship with cars, trucks and motorbikes for sure, and too with the folks behind their wheels and in their saddles. I want to be delighted to have their business and earn their trust, and too for them to be stoked to have found "my guy", amused how he talks to and coaxes their car, real pleased with the attention to detail and all the little extra love goes into every job, and eventually want to be a part of Motech's Scotch O'Clock circle every Friday evening once all the hoods are down.

That level of relationship is real hard to envision when it starts with blatant prejudice. Sure, I may try to explain why I cannot compete with online parts prices, maybe ask if they bring their own steak for the restaurant's chef to grill up for them to avoid their markup, but chances are higher they'd be met with an equally honest, maybe even prejudiced response back at them.

"Sorry, that won't work for me, but thanks for stopping by."

Most will just wollop them with a huge, discouraging quote off top of their heads to be done with them.

Would be a shame if someone with limited experience with professionals picks up and embraces that context here and projects it onto potentially great mechanics, only to become disillusioned with indifference and outrageous quotes, and with that expanding the public mistrust and suspicion most of us work real hard daily to dispel.

Thanks.
 

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