79 Bronco starting issue

[tomassjj]

i have got a 79 bronco 351m C6 4x4 virtually stock motor except the 2bbl carb and intake was replaced with 4bbl components ( had been do b4 i bought it) i just got done replacing the stock distributor. everything worked b4 i replaced it but 1 of the clips was broken on the bottom of it so i replaced it. instead of a stock one i went the hei route. after replacing it the engine would turn over but not start, checked the timing reset the timing just to make sure. did the finger thing over the #1 piston to set tdc again the engine wuld not start only turn over so thinking i didnt have the 12v required for the hei i hot wired it "well not really". i put a 30amp inline fuse on the battery and ran it to a switch uinder that dash i also hooked up the eletric fuel pump i insatalled years ago to another switch wich was pig tailed off of the 30amp line. during this process i had to leave to run some errands, although i thot everything was disconnected to not drain the battery i left the ground off the switch to the distributor which is grounded to the underside of dash(is this ground ok or did i short something out)? when i returned i finished up the wirng of the switches and everything worked except when i tired to fire up the engine the was only 1 click sound and every time after wards. ive charged the battery even put it in another vehicle to check the battery. no other wires were touched during process of instaling the switches.

not to sure what step to take next? do i need to replace the silenoid? thats the 1 on the fender wall next to battery, correct? i cant tell where the clicking is coming from, either the starter or its silenoid, right? was thinking since i have the distrubutor and fuel pump on switches whats the harm and wiring the starter to an appropriate type of swtich for it, thus doin away with the silenoid in gemeral. thinking its not the starter since it worked one minute but not the next, but the sileniod

any and all info will b greatly appritiated

one more thing i have been trying to figure out what my rear and frint diff is. i found to tag on the rear but no codes on the front. the rear codes are D8135, 1F56, 32065F1, i know its not a 9in the axles taper down half way to hubs, is this the 8.8 rear? also how else can i tell what the front is if no codes r found?

 

[Bully Bob]

"whats the harm and wiring the starter to an appropriate type of swtich for it, thus doin away with the silenoid"

No harm...except what will you gain..? That's what a solenoid is.., a switch.

And., they're cheap.

Put your hand on it & have someone turn key.... should click once.

If it shutters., could still be a dead cell/weak bat.

Have it (bat.) tested.... :-B

You can jump around it to see if starter will activate...just be careful NOT to weld things...!! :wacko:

 

[tomassjj]

"whats the harm and wiring the starter to an appropriate type of swtich for it, thus doin away with the silenoid"

No harm...except what will you gain..? That's what a solenoid is.., a switch.

And., they're cheap.

Put your hand on it & have someone turn key.... should click once.

If it shutters., could still be a dead cell/weak bat.

Have it (bat.) tested.... :-B

You can jump around it to see if starter will activate...just be careful NOT to weld things...!! :wacko:

 

[tomassjj]

k ive replaced the sileniod, checkd the starter by jumpin start of th bat on my work bench. starter works fine, the sileniod just jumps only once and i can hear it make one loud click as b4 i replaced it just stronger now. iam goin to replace the power wire from th silenoid to see if its that. but my thing with just outting it in a switch is that if i cant figure out what th prob is with th wiring then just put it on a switch that way i know its gettin power properly cause my wiring is a birds nest of old orginal wires and some that look replaced have no clue what goes where and instead of messin things up worse. thanks for th info. am thinkin about rewiring th whole truck at som point also and doin away with alot of th useless stuff and relays, that way theres less to go wrong hace everything on switches fuelpump, motor, dist., only have th key for radio and to put power at a new fuse box with **** fuses instead of glass ones. but thanks again for th info let me know what u think

oh one more thing to jump around th silenoid just take a screwdriver n touch th two terminals one th side of th silenoid that goes to th starter right? dont wanna f nothin up

 

[Bully Bob]

"my thing with just outting it in a switch is that if i cant figure out what th prob is with th wiring then just put it on a switch that way i know its gettin power properly cause my wiring is a birds nest of old orginal wires"

All the more reason NOT to install a "switch"

The solenoid temporarily shoots 12V fr. heavy cables across it to the starter... /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

Runn'n small wires & a switch to the dash area...you'll have "cooked birds nest.. [-X

If the solenoid is work'n....no need to "jump" it.

I don't recommend it, at this point.... :-B

 

[tomassjj]

ok ive changed the silenoid checkd the starter still only 1 click from sienoid. am about to changed to power wire from silenoid to starter read some where here about runnin a ground from starter to fram if an auto tranny. well ive got one do i just tie it onto the bolts that mount the starter? and then attach to fram or is there a paticular spot on the starter? (i hope its a c6 tranny, ptreety sure thats what the #s say) i am also looking at replacing th voltage regulator to see if this helps, also the ignition switch may be gettin stuck ive noticed the past feww times ive tired to start it the brake light and (cabt remember the other light that comes bbut they both on the dash) but they both stay on. could this have somehting to do with it not starting or getting proper signal to silenoid for starting?

also ive had no luck figuring out my rear dif code???? it reads D8135, 1F56, 32065F1 any help with this code would b awsome i know its prob an 8.8 just by looking at the housing from th back it has the two dimples on both sides of the bump for the ring gear. also axles taper about half way down the axles housing

 

[Seabronc]

I have merged your two threads. Please keep all posts about the same problem in the same thread.

As far as start ring, I may have missed it, but I haven't heard anything from you about the condition of the cables from the battery to the solenoid, solenoid to starter, battery (-) to the engine block and from there to the frame. You need to check all those connections by removing the cable, cleaning the contact surface, check the condition where the wire is attached to the lugs (this connection often corrodes and prevents a good connection), correct any problems in that area and then reconnect. The problem sounds like a ground connection problem, but badly corroded wire to lug connections can give the same symptom. Also, the starter connection to the engine block.

Wiring a switch to bypass the solenoid is playing with fire. You won't be able to find a switch that has heavy enough contacts to carry the starting current of the starter. If you are talking about wiring a switch to operate the solenoid, that is a different story. However, since your key operated switch is causing the solenoid to click you don't need anything else.

Good luck,

>-

 

[tomassjj]

sorry bout that havnt figured out this site completly. but i have taken the starter off cleand the mating surfaces o fit and th plate on the tranny am about to replace th power wire from batt and from silenoid to starter. ive seen th ground from batt to motor but where is th one goin to th frame? thanx for th info, also an ideas on the rear diff codes? saw a post about swappin to a 9in whci id love to do since i got 35x16.5x15 to turn but they said th measurment for th swap was like 65 or 67 inches between the ****** and not the wms (wheel mounting surfac) and i wasnt sure just what they where talking about i know som about rear ends just not some of th terminalogy any help with thids would b great too thanx again.is this measurement to th shock mounts, seems not where the tire mounts but somthing else in that area

 

[tomassjj]

well now that iv checkd th ground from bat to motor clean th surfaces havnt found motor to frame there is a ground goin from the intake to fire wall is this it. its a bare wire obviously a ground its a bit ratty but seems conected rob gonna replace it with a normal coated wire from old power wire for starter since its a pretty big wire. now i have other probs too the seat belt & brake light on dash will not go off. i removed th ignition from dash to chek wires al look good, also now key wont turn ignition that well i have to giggle it an dthat doesnt even work all th time. also have no turn signals. o there is also an arrow light on the dash for th pass side still have no clue whats goin on i dont ndrstand how runiin a wire from bat to under th dash has created this mess iam about ready to tear down whole truck and keep the goood stuff an dfind another in better shape b-( b-(

 

[tomassjj]

well ok ive changed the silenoid the wires from batt to silenoid then the wires from silenoid to starter even grounded th starter by runin a thick wire from starter bolt to th ground where th batt is grounded to th eng block ive replaced th ignition switch. i had a prob with th seat belt and brake lights on dash bein on constantly found th prob with th seatbelt light but hav yet to find y th brake light is on. i am still havin sam prob with th starter not comin on. i hav checkd th starter by removing it and connecting it to th bat via jumper cables and it workd like it should but it does not work when on th motor. im not sure where to go next any more advice will b a great help. have scrapd th idea of th switch just want to get this thing runin

1 more thing th turn signals arnt workin eithr if i turn th lights on there is 1 arrow on th dash that stays on constsantly with out havin th turn signals on. is there a common prob here or idividual prob i was hopin th new ignition switch was it but wasnot ive tried gigglin wires undr th dash but hav found no loose connection to mak it go off but then again i havnt found th prob with th starter yet either

 

[tomassjj]

I have merged your two threads. Please keep all posts about the same problem in the same thread.

As far as start ring, I may have missed it, but I haven't heard anything from you about the condition of the cables from the battery to the solenoid, solenoid to starter, battery (-) to the engine block and from there to the frame. You need to check all those connections by removing the cable, cleaning the contact surface, check the condition where the wire is attached to the lugs (this connection often corrodes and prevents a good connection), correct any problems in that area and then reconnect. The problem sounds like a ground connection problem, but badly corroded wire to lug connections can give the same symptom. Also, the starter connection to the engine block.

Wiring a switch to bypass the solenoid is playing with fire. You won't be able to find a switch that has heavy enough contacts to carry the starting current of the starter. If you are talking about wiring a switch to operate the solenoid, that is a different story. However, since your key operated switch is causing the solenoid to click you don't need anything else.

Good luck,

>-

i have found a black and green about a 10g wire that comes from th big bunch of wires by th steering colom that was closer to th light switch side rather than th ignition side. i cant seem to find where it was plugd in at doesnt appear to b any other wires that it was connectd too or aconnection on a switch. my haynes manual says that a black and green wire goes to th ighnition switch but i just replaced that and didnot see a missin wire plus this wire is on th other side of th dash. ive attached a volt meter to it and it does seem to produce ant power while key is off or on is this a ground for somthing but if it is a ground y does it come from th engine dept to ground to th dash nhot sure where to go next gonna try and take th dash off to c if i can find where it canm from. and still havin issues with th starter. i have taken th power wire off and tried to jump it straight off th batt and it did nothin even tho i hav a ground wire from starter dirctly to th ground for th bat to engine block any further ideas?

 

[tomassjj]

ok now that ive takin the dash "instrument panel" off i have found another set of wires not connectd to anything. this set is brown wires that r connectd togethr and ahs a female slide connectr on it when i touch it tio th othr wire i found "black with green stripe" i made a relay undr th dash "just to th left of steerin colom" click. this relay has all th wire that look like its supposd to hav r connect. these wires r 10g and mainly black wit blue stripes. connectin these wires hav solved none of my probs, i.e. starter not workin or th right turn signal indicator on dash stayin on constantly with no turn signals what so ever i dont think th wipers work eithr but all othr lights work head high and low, brakes and tail, even th runin lights work. still hav no clue where eithr of these wires go or if they even went any wher to begin with i mean they had to have went somwher right? i dont see bare wires just hangin un der th dash??? but th 1st wire i found th black n green 1 hAD som coatin removed like it was in somthin ive lookd at both th light and wiper switches and found no missin wires this wire is not very long so it can only reach so far and hav found nothin that it could go to.. i even tried groundin th wire to th dsah as if wer a ground wire for somthin and nothin diff has happend.

 

[Rons beast]

Do yourself a favor and change the battery ground cable.....just do it...I have seen bizzare electric problems that have been the result of bad grounds. ( found circuits searching for grounds through bulbs, causing them to light.)

Some connectors you may find are for options that are not on your ride but are included in the wiring harness.

Change the ground and get a wiring manual or Hayes book. It will be your best friend.

 

[Bully Bob]

ALSO..,

Disconnect the bat. & crank the motor over with a breaker bar or the like.

This to be sure the eng. isn't frozen.

 

[tomassjj]

ALSO..,

Disconnect the bat. & crank the motor over with a breaker bar or the like.

This to be sure the eng. isn't frozen.

is ther another ground besides where th bat grounds and th 1 goin from th intake to th fire wall? ive heard ppl say th body or frame ground but i can only find these 2 spots. yea my buddy said his 91 suburban dd th same thing when his ground went bad on his starter. i'll try th new ground for th bat n while im at it im gonna get a new groumd from th intake to fire wall cause its th old bare wire ground type also a new groumd wire for th starter sine i used the old power wire. 1 more thing there is a loose ground wire that attaches to th fire wall right above where all th heater components r under th hood doesnt look like its been hooked up for a while again its th bare wire type and is attachd to th lip of wher th hood meets th truck or where th washer fluid lines run across it looks like its supoosd to bolt to something any ideas? o in of course th heater fans nmot working so im guesin this is for th heater fan just have no clue where to hook it back up. my haynes manual dont show ground locations i dont think prob dont know how to read itright but thanks for all th good insight

o i have askd in th discusion forums about rewiring kits som1 told me to check out painless kits which i have and like else wher no has a specific kit for 79 broncos only up to a 77 "that they show online" does ne 1 now for sure that they make a kit for th full size? or who does? in yes i want a complete kit

 

[Bully Bob]

Typically, OEM wiring has several plugs & single wires that go to nothing. Could be for overseas markets &/or options not on your vehicle.

I mentioned turning the eng. over by hand, using the crank pully nut so as to be sure a piston isn't jammed or something worse amiss inside the block.

All the wires in the world won't help if the eng. is "stuck" internally.

 

[tomassjj]

Typically, OEM wiring has several plugs & single wires that go to nothing. Could be for overseas markets &/or options not on your vehicle.

I mentioned turning the eng. over by hand, using the crank pully nut so as to be sure a piston isn't jammed or something worse amiss inside the block.

All the wires in the world won't help if the eng. is "stuck" internally.

well ive turnd th motor over by hand n its not froz. ive replaced all the wires "not th whole truck just ones for bat, starter, n grounds and nothin same stuff. its def a ground issue cause with th starter on th work bench hookd to th bat th starter works. ive tried doin this with th starter grounded to th motor usin th new wires aqnd not even a spark. so im guessin its th ground, gonna try groundin it to th frame next just tryin to figure a good spot to ground it since th headers r in th way n im not tyrin to lay th wire across them. will th cross member be a good spot?

 

[Bully Bob]

There's always the possibility the starter spins freely W/O a load....yet still could be bad., so as not to be able to turn the motor over.

----Most/some auto parts stores can test the starter.-----

Don't feel bad if your added ground cable doesn't work.

Bat. ground cable runs to the eng. block....the starter is bolted to the block...there is the ground for the starter.

All things being equal & clean....the starter (when 12v is supplied) should function.

If not., all that's involved is; battery., cables., solenoid., & starter.

 

[tomassjj]

There's always the possibility the starter spins freely W/O a load....yet still could be bad., so as not to be able to turn the motor over.

----Most/some auto parts stores can test the starter.-----

Don't feel bad if your added ground cable doesn't work.

Bat. ground cable runs to the eng. block....the starter is bolted to the block...there is the ground for the starter.

All things being equal & clean....the starter (when 12v is supplied) should function.

If not., all that's involved is; battery., cables., solenoid., & starter.

is this the case with th starter bein on th tranny in stead of th block it self? n i gues since i already got evry thing else new mite as well get a new starter too. what part store xan test th starter with a load? evry1 ive been to pretty much just hit tis with 12v n watches its spin like i did with my bat. i hope its as simple as this, ive been rakin my brain. but knowin me this is it. thanks for th info i'll let yall know if its