throttle body spacers

[jsomedaysoon]

every time i look at a summit or a jegs i see these throttle body spacer's. they seem simple to put on and a good idea all around. but i notice that not many people have them. whats the catch? does anybody know anything about them?

 

[Big_Brown_Bronco]

It's my understanding that they aren't that effective. All they're supposed to do is create turbulence so that air mixes more thoroughly in the chamber with the fuel for better combustion. The only problem is that it never quite seems to works that way... too long of a path for the air too travel. I have never used them, but the majority of people that I know who have found no benefit to their installation. You will more than likely see/feel more difference in power by installing a cold air kit.

 

[Broncobill78]

What would be the purpose of installing one ? Sounds like the same claims the "tornado" makes. Fact is that while I'm sure using the spacer *does* induce a bit more turbulance I'm also quite sure that the highly paid SAE engineers gave some thought to what the optimum distance that the fuel-air mixture travels *should* be. A throttle body EFI system is a "wet" system, it sprays an air/fuel mixture into the intake and that mixture then travels thru the runners to the individual cylinders. Multiports are "dry" systems because only the air travels thru the runners and the fuel is added right at the cylinder (this is why MFI heads produce a turbulent swirl). If you use a spacer on a TBI system you're artifically increasing the distance the mixture as to travel and you're giving the fuel more of an opportunity to cool down & come out of suspension as well as reducing the overall atomization. You want the finest possible "mist" of air & fuel as you can get (the finer the mist the more HP & torque the engine makes) and increasing the distance this mist has to travel defeats the purpose of creating it. A throttle body produces much better atomization of the fuel so why go backwards by taking some of that away ? Spacers may have had a place on certain carb'd engines but to try & sell them as a productive technology for fuelie engines should be criminal. Now sometimes a TBI conversion will still use an old carb intake and depending on the throttle & tranny kick-down arrangements they sometimes need spacers to clear everything, in a case like that you do what you gotta to make it run but that's a whole different deal from it being the most efficent way to run your engine /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

 

[Seabronc]

Well said Dave. I wonder why racing engine design spends so much time on getting smooth non-turbulent intake flow . That some how tells me that these little gadgets are worthless.

Good Luck,

>-

 

[Redneck86]

Dude there just as usless as carb spacers, what its suppose to do do is give your truck more mid-range and highend power, just like a carb spacer. What i would do get more power is a K&N cold air intake, those you can really feel more kick in the engine. Also get one of those hypertch power programmers, those really do work, We used to have a 96 chevy tahoe with one and it was FAST, itll get rid of the governer if theres one on it and gives you a pretty good boost of power. /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

 

[jsomedaysoon]

thanks for the input guys. i was almost about to buy one of these things. they sound like a no lose thing. so about these k & n cold air kits. i'm having a hard time finding one for my model. its just an 86 with a 302. anybody have a link handy?

 

[Broncobill78]

Oh jeez, man you just made me snort *** thru my nose and that $hit hurts. I'm not going to say JACK about what I think of the "Cold Air" kits and leave this one to someone else. Jesus freaking Christ my nose hurts. Please, someone, ANYONE. Damn I can hardly type.

 

[jsomedaysoon]

Oh jeez, man you just made me snort *** thru my nose and that $hit hurts. I'm not going to say JACK about what I think of the "Cold Air" kits and leave this one to someone else. Jesus freaking Christ my nose hurts. Please, someone, ANYONE. Damn I can hardly type.

i'm lost right about now... i know its been a long week but yea... i'm a little confused right now. every one is saying the k&n kit is the way to go. i hope no perminent damage has been done to your nose!

 

[Broncobill78]

Well no, I don't think so but it hurts damnit. As a good general rule of thumb alcohol is NOT something you want to shoot thru your nose (in *either* direction). To be perfectly honest I'm not a big fan of the whole "cold air" intake thing. Maybe some guys are and maybe someone can even show me some *legimate* numbers (like those from a neutral third party that has no stake in the advertising revinue these things generate) then I'll kick it around but everything I've seen from neutral parties shows that the gains are so negligable that it isn't worth spending the $$$. Now I'm sure this will result in a backlash, but hey, it is what it is and if it *actually* worked then it's use would be widespread because *nobody* turns down free HP. The "Cold Air" guys are riding the same horse as the "Tornado" crowd and THOSE guys are riding the coattails of the splitfire sparkplug and Magnetic atomization wave. There's never any shortage of people looking to scam the car & truck crowd. If you want a glimpse at what REALLY works then watch the racers and see what they spend THEIR money on. Smooth, non-turbulant airflow is the biggest thing on their plates right now. Take a page from the racers book and you'll usually do pretty well. If the NASCAR guys aren't running Tornados in their intake hoses it's probably because the product sucks, if it MADE hp then they'd be using it, simple as that.

 

[Tennessee Jed]

This works well, but it ain't cheap.

 

[jsomedaysoon]

This works well, but it ain't cheap.

haha thanks but i'm not trying to drag race my bronco i'm just looking to keep up with traffic and all the newer trucks on the road.

 

[Seabronc]

i'm lost right about now... i know its been a long week but yea... i'm a little confused right now. every one is saying the k&n kit is the way to go. i hope no perminent damage has been done to your nose!

It is true that engines can develop more power from cold dense air than from hot rarefied air. Conventionally aspired aircraft engines run like ***** Apes on cold dense air ONCE they are up to normal operating temperature. However, under certain atmospheric conditions that can also generate intake icing which cuts off the air supply in both aircraft and automotive engines, ( the reason for having a method of applying heat to the intake). A KN filter doesn't do any thing different than a stock air cleaner does. A properly functioning air intake system is designed to take in warm air when the engine needs it and switch to external cooler air as the engine comes up to normal operating temperature. There are several conditions in which the engine requires preheated air in order to run properly. Placing a KN (Big Cone) in place of the standard filter arrangement completely defeats that on a carbed engine and does nothing extra for an EFI. In fact, if you don't stick it outside the engine compartment the KN filter will be taking in hotter air than the stock system. In no case will you be getting colder air than the stock design gets. If you will look at the stock design, (carbed or EFI), the intake is external to the engine compartment. The stock intakes are designed to supply as much air as that little stock 302, 351, 360 is capable of gulping. Granted, if you do something that increases the ability to gulp more, then you need to do something to the intake to compensate, but then you need to look at the entire design from intake to exhaust. If a KN actually shows some improvement then I'd suggest that the stock system was not functioning properly. If I look at older engines, the intake and it's associated controls are not functioning for one reason or the other, (usually neglect) or they are no longer in existence on the engine. In that case a KN might be an improvement but it would be cheaper to restore the controls.

I only mentioned the KN Big Cone above, the ones that are circular look alikes to a standard filter or square for a filter box do nothing but lighten you wallet. They do nothing than a quality less expensive filter does.

So as you can see, my thoughts are with Dave's on this. Show me some dyno testing results that prove the material in a KN filter adds anything to the power of an engine that a properly functioning stock filter system doesn't do and I might become a believer.

That's my .02 on the subject of KN type filters.

>-

 

[Broncobill78]

. Granted, if you do something that increases the ability to gulp more, then you need to do something to the intake to compensate, but then you need to look at the entire design from intake to exhaust.

The clouds have parted and rays of sunlight are shining thru. These things are *systemic*. You simply CAN'T go and change one part of a systems and expect it to have any sort of impact without adressing it's impact & effects upon the REST of THE SYSTEM. An engine is a collection of systems that work together to produce a result (horespower and torque) but trying to modify just one part of that system while ignoring the rest just doesn't work. We saw this all thru the 80's while literally *hundreds* of shops & builders came up with one 5.0 recipe after another. Eventiually the cream rose to the top and people began to understand that *especially* with EFI engines, a shotgun approach just won't work. It's like putting in a monster cam but leaving the carb/efi, intake & exhaust manifolds alone. An engine works as a system of parts and it has to be modified and addressed as a system. Throwing some kind of beanie-propeller into the intake hose is laughable if you think it'll produce any sort of tangable result. The SAE engineers have entire *buildings* with assembly rooms and multiple dyno cells there just to ***** around with, to test their ideas and see how things work. To think that they somehow *missed* something that significantly increases horsepower or milage is simply foolish. If they aren't using it or doing it in large-scale production then you can be absolutely sure there's a reason for it. Google this stuff and read the white-papers they publish. I'll grant the language is sometimes difficult to wade thru but once you start to understand what they're saying it all makes sense. These guys are NOT stupid and they aren't trying to hide the 100mpg carb from us. Read & understand what they have to say. Go out & educate yourselvs, the info is there for *anyone* who cares enuf to look for it.

 

[jsomedaysoon]

that makes sense considering the amount of people that i know that put a k&n this or that on there truck and saw no results. but for every one that i know that has seen no results i know another person that swears by them. haha i think i will just accept the fact that my truck is what it is, unstopable offroad but slow on the road.

 

[Seabronc]

that makes sense considering the amount of people that i know that put a k&n this or that on there truck and saw no results. but for every one that i know that has seen no results i know another person that swears by them. haha i think i will just accept the fact that my truck is what it is, unstopable offroad but slow on the road.

Good thinking, they weren't designed to be a dragster /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> . There are things that can be done that are effective but body spacers and KN filters are a waste of money. Don't forget the pride factor and placebo effect, once a guy wastes his money on something, it's hard to admit it was of no effect. Like I said before, if there is an improvement on a stock engine then I'll bet the stock intake system isn't functioning as designed, probably find the vacuum hoses and device missing or defective.

Good luck,

>-

 

[mechanic humvee]

Good thinking, they weren't designed to be a dragster /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> . There are things that can be done that are effective but body spacers and KN filters are a waste of money. Don't forget the pride factor and placebo effect, once a guy wastes his money on something, it's hard to admit it was of no effect. Like I said before, if there is an improvement on a stock engine then I'll bet the stock intake system isn't functioning as designed, probably find the vacuum hoses and device missing or defective.
Good luck,

>-

I just wanna add my two cents regarding k&n filters. I am new here and this is my first bronco, having more expirience with "vortec chevy" motors. I did buy the k&n intake, mass air sensor, computer tuner, shorty headers and high flow exhaust from headers back on a 97 Z71. That was a far cry difference from stock. I also went from 14 mpg anywhere to over 18 mpg on highway at 75 mph with cruise set. I will agree that just a k&n filter is completly useless, but have been sold on whole intake and filter idea. The stock intake on most vehicles is designed to make engine quieter therefore restricting airflow. However my entire comment regarding the intake makes sense because I went and changed all peramiters of engine air in and out. However you guys will be happy to know (as most of you are die hard ford guys) that chevy died a tragic transmission loss. I took it to a shop that upcharged the sale so much I gave him the title to the truck cause I didnt have funds. The original cost was 900 by time i went to pick it up it was 2800. Blah Blah I lost truck. Oh well life goes on.

 

[Broncobill78]

I think the whole cold-air thing got started back in the 80's. I can remember going to the Fast Ford events and seeing guys in the pits between passes and they'd almost ALL have a bag of ice sitting on their manifolds trying to cool them down. Now sure, I understand that cooler air is denser air and denser air gives you more power but it really IS a marginal thing. Now of course when you add a quarter horse here and a half horse there you can pickup an extra 10-12 hp but at the same time I have to think that some of these mods just don't make a lot of sense for a street machine. It's more about guys being able to put on that window sticker and list for everyone all the mods they're running. Add to all of that the fact that the aerodymanicly brick-like Bronco is FAR from being an ideal platform for performance modifications. It does best on trails in low-rev high-torque situations.

 

[jsomedaysoon]

yea, every time i see my bronco go down the street ( my girlfriend is the only one with a valid lisence at the moment) the word that comes to mind is "Tank" slow but strong and unstopable. maybe i will just get a tag that lets the pushy people behind me know that i am aware that i am slow so they can stop with the dirty looks when they pass me. something like "ososlow" or "fastenuf" all in all i've learned alot from this thread though. its been very informative.

 

[ms_jetset]

every time i look at a summit or a jegs i see these throttle body spacer's. they seem simple to put on and a good idea all around. but i notice that not many people have them. whats the catch? does anybody know anything about them?

I put one on my Bronco and it doesn't do s*&$ bro. Sorry. But maybe this will save ya from wasting like 50 bucks!