resurrection

[Anderson]

Here is a link to a Nov. 2011 topic I started: http://broncozone.com/topic/22413-flooding-issue/page__p__116455__fromsearch__1#entry116455

If the link works it goes to a flooding issue question / topic. I want to say thank you for all the help and suggestions back then. I also want to Apologize for being so long in getting back. Maesk5 asked me to post what I find out so others can benefit. I am all up for that, but not sure I am all that qualified. I can’t emphasize enough how much I appreciate the knowledge and willingness those have to share it on here and other sites! You guys are AWESOME!

Maesk5 suggested two things towards the end of that last thread / topic. Did both of those and here’s the results. Now, I have to add I understand the necessity of eliminating step by step. I just hope that I am going the right direction and in the right order!

Not needed, the Bronco sat all last winter. It’s a mountain truck. That didn’t go so good as weather rolled around that we would want to use it. Tank fuel pump failed. I think that led to rail fuel pump failure. Anyway…tank failed , too! (big ole hole, spray that mud OUT from the skid guard!) So good news is all new in that category. Filter, too of course.

Back to the suggestions: Pull the vac line from the FPR and take a good whiff. Smell fuel –bad FPR. Yep, bad to the 7th power I would say. New FPR, but now I have a lope at idle. Not a real bad one, but up and down from around 900 to 1100 RPMs. I have researched this indicates a bad timing chain. I haven’t performed the Haynes manual 5 degree test yet, but I did check with the previous owner, because you can tell the timing cover isn’t that old. He confirmed a new timing chain install that is only 3-5 yrs old. I couldn’t have a bad timing chain again already- especially as much as this vehicle has sit during that time –could I? Even the previous owner let it sit a lot.

Other suggestion was to check for vac leak with an un-lit propane cylinder and hose, which I did and I got no RPM increase. That’s good news I know, but where does it point me now?

Lope at idle, Sluggish performance, No kick down ( do these Auto Trannys have a kick down?)

Sorry for the novel, but now what? Do I re time ? Do I clear codes and let new ones build? Any advice appreciated

 

[miesk5]

yo ANDERSON,

Do the self test for Codes again and post according to KOEO

and

KOEO

One Code that we Hope to see is 17 in KOER; RPM below Self-Test limit with Idle Air Control off.

This sensor is often ref. to as Idle Air Control (IAC), Idle Air Bypass (IAB), Idle Speed Control (ISC) - as ref to by Probst in Table., Throttle Bypass Air, Idle Bypass, Inlet Air Controller, Inlet Air Bypass, Intake Air Bypass, & Intake Air Control

Then we go to;

Idle Air Control (IAC) Sludge; ROLLING Idle, etv. TSB 91-10-9 for 89-91 Bronco & F Series & many others; CLICK NEXT to view next page

Source: by miesk5 at http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/910741

& (don't do until you check codes again)

Idle Air Control (IAC) Sludge; Poor Idle TSB 91-25-07 for 85-92 Bronco & F Series & many others, Modification; "...I have spent some time this week trying to set up an air bypass around the IAC valve by cutting away some of the gasket between the IAC in and out air holes, rather than pay big bucks for Fords spacer kit. I cut away the center of the original IAC gasket from the outside of each hole to the outside of the other hole, giving about 1/2" gap for the air to pass through. I noticed an immediate improvement in the engines starting behavior, but it would still die occasionally. For most of my trucks life it has been dying when it was started hot. It would rev up and then drop the idle so low it would die unless I would catch the idle with the accelerator. It would never die when cold as the IAC would keep the idle speed up, and it never died at stop lights. Now it's worst situation seems to be when it has been shut down for a half hour or so, and restarted. I wonder if the heat soak is fooling the ETC into thinking the engine is warmer than it really is. I decided that more improvement could be had if I had a thicker gasket, because the original IAC gasket was very thin (0.018"). I had some 0.030" gasket material so I made my own with the same 1/2" cut out. This gave enough bypass to noticeably raise the idle speed and almost eliminate the dying. After maybe 50 starts in the last few days, it only died twice. After so many years of catching it with the accelerator it is darned hard to leave my foot off it. It is clear to me that by trial and error one can tune the air bypass without the need for the expensive Ford kit. I may combine the two gaskets for more bypass, but the idle is about as fast as I would want now, especially for driving in snow..."; miesk5 Note, Tomco makes an idle plate P/N 8491 = to Ford, P/N F2PZ9F939A; Like Ford’s service kit, Tomco’s spacer plat e (arrow) is installed between the air bypass valve and its mounting boss using two gaskets. The two holes in the plate are for bleeder screws, which provide a minimum air rate adjustment independent of the throttle opening.

Source: by Nelbur at Ford Bronco Zone Forums http://broncozone.com/topic/22150-fast-idle-problem/page__pid__115710?do=findComment&comment=115710

============

TIMING CHAIN Troubleshooting; "...Noise from inside the timing chain cover is a good indication that there is too much slack in the chain. Another way to spot excessive play in the timing chain is to remove the distributor cap and turn the crankshaft in one direction until the rotor moves, then turn it in the opposite direction until the rotor starts to turn the other way. If the crank has to be turned more than about half an inch to move the rotor, chances are the timing gears and chain need to be replaced...." read more

Source: by miesk5 at Ford Bronco Zone Forums http://broncozone.com/topic/20044-302-efi-stumbles-when-cruising/

Consider Ford Fuel Injection and Electronic Engine Control: How to Understand, Service and Modify, 1988-1993; & Ford Fuel Injection and Electronic Engine Control: How to Understand, Service, and Modify All Ford-Lincoln-Mercury Cars and Light Trucks, 1980 to 1987 by Charlie Probst

avail @ BARNES & NOBLE, AMAZON, E BAY, ETC.

 

[Anderson]

Thanks again for all the info. May take a while to get all this done after work, and between other things. Be patient!

 

[Anderson]

Thanks again Miesk5 ! ! ! Pulled some codes last night. KOEO: 67 (MLP sensor -more homework to do)- am I correct that the system flashes this code twice - an initial code I beleive some publication or some one referred to it? Then I got secondary codes of 33 (EGR open not detected- more homework) and 95 ( Fuel pump secondary circuit failure PCM to Ground) I should say research not homework! .

Other syptoms of note. I went thru the vaccuum lines again with a propane canister and hose - just to make sure in better daylight! NO increase in rpms.

The rolling idle issue has decreased considerably. I get ignition. A fast idle, 1000-1200 for a moment, then a short rpm spike- just a few hundred 1400 and then it settles to around 750 and hangs there pretty good. That's wierd to me, but then mybe the system is trying to correct things. ? ? ? on it's own ?

KOER - any ideas why I CAN NOT pull a code? System simply refuses to give me a flash. steps taken- warm engine to normal operating tempature. Run thru all the gears - even reverse. Place in park. Turn off engine. Set the code jumper wire. Wait 10 seconds and start engine. 351W w/ auto overdrive, so I shouldn't need to depress brake pedal, turn wheel and all that stuff -right? The key won't start this machine, we turn the key on and use a push button starter we installed in the dash.

Could that be the reason why no KOER codes? Any ideas?

 

[miesk5]

yo ANDERSON,

DTC 33 is triggered when the EVP sensor is not closing;

Testing & Operation; "...The EGR Valve Position (EVP) sensor monitors the position of the EGR valve pintle. The EVP sensor converts the mechanical movement of the pintle into an electrical voltage signal which is relayed to the PCM. The EVP sensor is a linear potentiometer in which resistance varies with the EGR valve pintle movement.

Voltage is fed to the EVP by the signal return circuit. As the EGR is opened the EVP directs more voltage to the EEC and less down the voltage reference circuit. The EVP sensor provides the PCM with information on EGR flow and EGR system failures. The EVP should read between 0.24 and 0.67 volts at idle with a closed EGR valve..." read more

Source: by Ryan M (Fireguy50) at http://oldfuelinjection.com/?p=35'>http://oldfuelinjection.com/?p=35

excerpts;

Damaged EVP sensor

•Corroded or dirty connector

•Damaged EGR valve

•Faulty Vacuum system

•Broken wire in harness

•Grounded harness

•Damaged Computer

I know you did the vac leak test, but pull vac hose off @ EVP - I pull em off and use the straw sucking test; one finger over one end; and... ya get the idea?

Testing & Operation; "...The EGR Valve Position (EVP) sensor monitors the position of the EGR valve pintle. The EVP sensor converts the mechanical movement of the pintle into an electrical voltage signal which is relayed to the PCM. The EVP sensor is a linear potentiometer in which resistance varies with the EGR valve pintle movement.Voltage is fed to the EVP by the signal return circuit. As the EGR is opened the EVP directs more voltage to the EEC and less down the voltage reference circuit. The EVP sensor provides the PCM with information on EGR flow and EGR system failures. The EVP should read between 0.24 and 0.67 volts at idle with a closed EGR valve..." read more Source: by Ryan M (Fireguy50) at http://oldfuelinjection.com/?p=35

EVP is light gray & attached to the top of the EGR Valve

EVP PIC by Waltman

==========

DTC 67Testing

Manual Lever Position/Transmission Range (MLPS/TR) Sensor

Source: by SeattleFSB (Seattle FSB) at http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/863652

DTC 67 & 634 indicate the MLP sensor is out of Self-Test range when the gear selector is in PARK; "...Possible causes: Misadjusted linkage. Open or short in harness circuits. Damaged MLP sensor. Damaged PCM. miesk5 NOTE;... for ******/Tracer tranny MLPS etc.; but the Bronco troubleshooting process will be similar exc for connector pins, etc. read more on testing

More MLPS LINKs in my site @ http://www.broncolinks.com/index.php?index=846

===========

DTC 95 - bad ground or always on. Possible bad fuel pump ground or open between fuel pump and pin 8 at PCM by miesk5

DTC 87, 95 & 96; "...These codes relate to low or no power reaching the fuel pump. Start testing at the fuel pump relay.

Location pic; GREEN Connector pic, next to the Brown Connector Under hood behind

Source: by Need4racin (The 90 Bronco, Dean) at http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/9307/temp90pics033ru4.jpg

The green connector is the fuel pump relay in an 89. I was able to limp my truck home one night when it wouldn't start. Pull the relay off, make a jumper from 14 Ga. wire and two male spade connectors, then jump the two LARGE pins in the connector. The pump should start running; go to the back and you'll hear

it running inside the tank. by Handy_andy_cv64 in an 89

The relay must respond to the EEC processor and the relay contacts must be a low resistance path for fuel pump power.

Relay testing can be done in a couple minutes with the fuel pump test table. Fuel pump relay testing;

Voltage at pump power terminal must be within .5v of battery power when relay is turned on with amp meter at pin 22.

Check power from battery if voltage is low. should be above 12.6 volts w/ everythAng off

Check the inertia switch and fuse if battery voltage is missing. Not Needed due to your latest reply

Inertia switch and fuel pump wiring: Codes 87, 95 and 96.

These codes relate to low or no power reaching the fuel pump. Start testing at the fuel pump relay. Inspect Relay and it's socket for corrosion

The relay must respond to the EEC processor and the relay contacts must be a low resistance path for fuel pump power. Relay testing can be done in a couple minutes with the fuel pump test table.

Fuel pump relay testing

1. Use solenoid test at EEC pin 22 to check relay coil current draw.

2. Voltage at pump power terminal must be within .5v of battery power when relay is turned on with amp meter at pin 22. Check power from battery if voltage is low. Check the inertia switch and fuse if battery voltage is missing.

Pin 22- (light blue-orange) Grounded to turn "on". Voltage will drop to about 1v when "on". Current draw will be 160 to 270mA

Pin 8- fuel pump monitor (dark green-yellow) 0v engine off, battery voltage with engine running.

EEC IV Connector Pin Depiction Pic

by Ryan M (Fireguy50)

EEC IV Connector Pin Outs by Ryan M (Fireguy50) at http://oldfuelinjection.com/truckpinouts.html

Wiring Diagram in a 90

http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/854315

G100, G104 Location in Engine Bay Diagram in a 90 5.0 & 5.8 Page 2



Source: by Seattle FSB (SeattleFSB)

Source: by Seattle FSB (SeattleFSB)

=========

KOER;

most Ford systems do not go directly from a KOEO to a KOER test with the ignition Keft on. These systems allow only one self-test per ignition cycle. Turn the key off after finishing a KOEO test; then turn it back on to begin the KOER test. Leave the key off for ten seconds between tests.

==

Will Post up for now before I lose Comcast.

 

[miesk5]

yo A.

it toll a long time to get that last reply posted thanks to Comcast!

even though CC mailed me this last week; "

Great news! Now you can do more online in half the time.

That's because we've automatically upgraded your XFINITY® Internet speed — and it won't cost you a penny more."

sureeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

See this by Charlie Probst;

 

[Anderson]

Proceeding in baby steps it seems! Code 33: I pulled the vacuum line and used the 'straw' method seems that diaphram in there or pintel or whatever is okay... it holds under vacuum, I can physically hear it operating. Along this line I have been looking at EGR valve delete posts. Wonder what your thoughts / advice of just eliminating this whole thing, and installing an EGR simulator to satisfy the computer? (I am about as rural as one can get ,and I have no emissions tests to pass... this ride will usually be off road.)

code 95: Not sure what the computer isn't liking here, Both pumps are working and seem strong. ? I will be looking at the provided testing info, and testing. Will post what I find.

code 67: same as above (code 95)

 

[miesk5]

yo,

re DTC 33

Do the EVP tests, etc.

====

DTC 87, 95 & 96; "...These codes relate to low or no power reaching the fuel pump. Start testing at the fuel pump relay.

Check power from battery if voltage is low. should be above 12.6 volts w/ everythAng offCheck the inertia switch and fuse if battery voltage is missing. Not Needed due to your latest reply

DTC 67; Neutral Safety switch not reading Neutral position (manual trans) or Park position during the test. Again, this is usually due to the test pre-conditions not being met. It will probably not reset this code once you clear the codes and retest with gear shift in Neutral or Park.