motor swap idea

[black beauty]

ok this may seem way out there but i need feedback to see what the bronco gurus on here know. i have a '89 fullsize with the stock 302 and i want more power. i know their are ways to put 429 and 460 motors in these but im greedy and want more. im talking a powerstroke. now my transmission isnt a e40d or any other type of automatic. its a five speed. im wondering if the bellhousing will bolt up to the to the powerstroke or if its a different bolt pattern. or if their is even a way to get a powerstroke mounted inside the frame. any feedback from yall would be very helpful thanks

 

[Broncobill78]

Well from you're wanting to do I have to assume that you're either a master fabricator or a recent lottery winner. I'm curious, which is it ? If you're really intent on doing this the best & easiest way will be to find a complete donor F-truck, shorten the frame & fit the Bronco body to it. Doing anything else is just insane unless you own a junkyard or have $50K to blow. It's an absolutely insane ammount of fabrication work. It HAS been done but I've seen the work involved and it's just crazy unless you ARE a lottery winner or junkyard-owning master fabricator. I'm not even going to *begin* listing what you'll need to change/fab because it's already giving me a headache. I've installed several 460's into Broncos and so have other members here and everyone who's done it can tell you there's more power there than you need and for a small fraction of what a Powerstroke conversion will cost you a 460 can be built (or bought since you seem to have wads of cash falling out of your pockets) that will easily overpower a Bronco chassis. A well built 460 with the aluminum CJ heads & a supercharger will easily top 600hp. Go for the aluminum block & the best of everything available & you'll go past 700hp. Get crazy with a twin turbo and you'll see 800hp. All that and you won't have to fab a *single* part. Pretty neat huh ?

Besides all that do you have any idea just how much a Powerstroke WEIGHS ? It'll look like a pimpmobile with the front bumper scraping and the ass way up in the air. There's not an airbag on anything smaller than a semi that will hold that thing up. You'd have to hack up the frame to make it fit but you'll need an intact & super-strong frame to hold it up & deal with the stress of driving down the street (let alone 4wheeling). You'd need a custom frame which brings you back to just shortening an F-truck frame & modifying it to accept the Bronco body, that's really the only way to even consider making something like this work.

 

[cowboydan]

i agree with broncobill. that is how my build got started. all i wanted was to convert my ifs to straight axle. but after reserching how much it would cost. for like 1000 bucks more i could just build a complete chassis and drive my bronco untill the build was complete. then it was - drive into the shop and swap the body onto my new frame and drive home with new truck. even that wasn't that basic. i shutter to think of the amount of work involved with you're powerstroke transplant. if you do plan on undertaking this idea, you gotta have your ducks all in a row or it will feel more like a migrane

 

[black beauty]

hey broncobill thanks for your input. like i said im just dreaming up ideas. i knew 460s went in with little fabrication work but id only heard of a few(like 5 or 6) that had 7.3 powerstrokes thrown in them. since you know a lot about this i need to know what you know about solid axle swaps. my ttb is gone and so is the rear axle when i decide if i wanna do this. how hard is it to do a solid axle swap for ton dana 60s front and rear. what all would i need and would i still be able to use my coil spring suspension set up. bronco graveyard.com sells a solid axle kit. http://broncograveyard.com/bronco/i-33920_...onco___f150.htm is the web site it you'll look at it and give me some more of your knowledge ill really appreciate it

 

[BB33's]

If you want a 460 and solid axles front and rear [-o< you just described an 1985-1986 F350. I have an '85 with a 460 four barrel and Dana 60 up front and Dana 70 rear. You should do what Bronco Bill said and buy a truck of this vintage shorten the frame and transplant your bronco body to it. It would need alot cut out though, The standard cab long beds hava a 136 inch wheelbase :blink: . Just to restate what bronco bill said, it costs alot and you better be prepared(checkbook and a pen with ink.) (

 

[Broncobill78]

hey broncobill thanks for your input. like i said im just dreaming up ideas. i knew 460s went in with little fabrication work but id only heard of a few(like 5 or 6) that had 7.3 powerstrokes thrown in them. since you know a lot about this i need to know what you know about solid axle swaps. my ttb is gone and so is the rear axle when i decide if i wanna do this. how hard is it to do a solid axle swap for ton dana 60s front and rear. what all would i need and would i still be able to use my coil spring suspension set up. bronco graveyard.com sells a solid axle kit. http://broncograveyard.com/bronco/i-33920_...onco___f150.htm is the web site it you'll look at it and give me some more of your knowledge ill really appreciate it

Nope, 460's are a bolt in. They require NO fabrication at all. Just buy the kit from L&L Products and drop the engine in. Simple as can be, not a single part to fab.

The straight axle swap is pretty straightforward but you need to have some fabrication & welding skills. In MY opinion it's not worth the cost of paying someone else to do the work. If *you* can do the work then the swap is usually a good idea, if you're writing checks then it's maybe not so cost effective (but then again maybe you have deeper pockets than me, most guys do /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> ). BidiBronco just asked this same question so take a quick look at my reply to him. In a nutshell the coil mounts & track-rod are the main issues but if you spend some time looking at the 78/79 setup and comparing it to the 80-96 you start to see what needs to be done. Nothing earthshattering but considering it IS your front axle you need to be *damn* sure you know what you're doing and can run a good, safe bead with proper penetration. If you can't weld well then have someone who CAN do the work, really, it's not something to ***** around with. The rear axle is no big deal, it's pretty much a bolt-in with the exception of needing to change either the pinion yoke or the driveshaft yoke so they use the same size U-joint. I haven't had a chance to look at the kit yet but I will later on (gotta rassle the rugrats into bed).

In the meantime give some thought to what BB33's said. The easiest way to do what you're looking at will be to get an F250/350 and shorten & modify the frame to accept the Bronco body. Going this route will eliminate SO many of the problems you won't believe it.

 

[black beauty]

ok if i do get the frame off another truck and chop it, how hard do you think it would be to move my cab mounts for the bronco body? cause im sure a bronco body wont bolt directly to a truck frame. with my luck it couldnt be that simple.

 

[black beauty]

hey thanks a lot for your help. if you do get a chance please take a look at that kit. the link i sent you was a solid axle kit set up with a 10" lift in mind. with that it 'claims' you can run 39.5" tires but see what you think then holler back at me.

 

[Broncobill78]

ok if i do get the frame off another truck and chop it, how hard do you think it would be to move my cab mounts for the bronco body? cause im sure a bronco body wont bolt directly to a truck frame. with my luck it couldnt be that simple.

Well, no. Of course the Bronco body isn't going to bolt right up to a chopped F-truck frame. But it's going to be a **** of a lot easier modifying the frame to fit the body than it will be trying to fab what you need for an engine/tranny/transfer case swap. You'll have to drop the body down, see how things line up & then start making it fit. I'm not trying to be rude but there just isn't enough space here for fabrication lessons. I'm going to be painfully honest here and say that if you don't have a clue where to start then you need to either dig REAL deep into your pockets and pay someone who DOES have a clue or start coming to grips with the fact that this is pretty much a pipe dream.

The only third alternative I can offer you is to enroll in a local community college that offers fabrication classes and start learning what you need to know. With access to school shop facilities and knowledgable instructors it's not unreasonable to maybe see that as a project but expect it to take several years. This sort of truck isn't built in 3 months unless you've got Shaq's checkbook. I still don't think you have a real grasp of what's involved here and just HOW much work you're talking about. Unless your Dad owns a fabrication or chassis shop you've got a LOT to learn before you light your first torch. There's more to just building this, it isn't an erector set and it has to be built SAFELY, it has to be built SAFER than the average truck and you're going to have to either pay someone to do it for you (easily upwards of $40-$50K) or learn for yourself (4-5yrs minimum)

Ask around, I honestly don't think you'll find anyone who thinks different. If anything I'm being liberal on the time & $$$

aspects.

I would quite honestly just swap in the 460 and be done with it. THAT is something that someone with average mechanical skills can accomplish and the kit is available, affordable and easy to install. Replace the axles with junkyard pieces that will bolt in and just drive the thing. Don't make it into a monster project, use it to learn on and then build your next truck with what you've learned building this one.

 

[madmaysey]

triton imo

 

[bidibronco]

I have to agree with BroncoBill, this is something that would be very dificult. I have seen a Cummins put into a Bronco using the Ford ZF5 speed behind it but that was (I think) around a $30K deal. Not something I would want to do. I would like to put a 460 in one but with how I like my engines done I can make my 351 pull just as hard with just a little extra time into what I've already done. For about the same money as well. Look into all your options, the only thing I can think of why a PSD or something of the sort would be nice would be the fuel economy but I didn't buy my Bronco with "that" in mind.

 

[Jersey]

Just a silly question, but why not just build the **** out of the 302 thats in there? There are probably hundreds of combinations of ways to get power out of these motors. No doubt several of them will get you near 500 horse with alot less time and money than cutting up trucks. Just a thought....

 

[Broncobill78]

Well the short answer is that you'll NEVER see 500HP out of a 302 (at least not one that will live for more than a few passes). I spent just shy of $9K on a full-boogie 460 and wound up with something that tripped the water-brake (an *engine* dyno, not a chassis dyno) at 480HP and 520lbs of torque. You just can't wring those sorts of numbers out of a 302. NOW, having said that, you CAN get some pretty respectable HP & torque from a factory shortblock and even more from a Motorsports block. Now some guys like to think about how much torque is available from a built powerstroke diesel but as we've been discussing the hassles and bull$hit involved in trying to retro one into an 80-96 Bronco chassis are just unbelievable. A good 5.0 block can often be good for 350hp/325lbs torque, maybe more with a stroker kit but quite honestly the 460 swap is the way to go for guys with an excess of testosterone and money. Building a full-blown 460 will make you **** money faster than beer & anyone who's DONE it will back me up on that. While there *are* a few combos that will get a 302 close to 500hp, there aren't ANY that will allow it to live for more than a dozen or so passes. There is simply no substitute for cubic inches. Not everyone wants or needs a 4mpg big block, you can build a pretty freaking respectable 15mpg 300+HP 302 for reasonable coin and drive it for 10-15yrs and quite honestly I think those are the more important considerations. Fuel prices being what they are today (and probably NOT very likely to go down in our lifetime) I would *strongly* recommend a built-up 302 as opposed to a 351 or anything larger.

 

[bidibronco]

Ah man, so I should've gotten a 302 to build? :*( makes me a bit sad. Oh well, if it only last for a year, I'll build another one! WOO HOO! Damn, I'm ****** money on motors like moviestars do on "cosmetic" shit! Oh well, I enjoy it!

 

[madmaysey]

if you have the money to blow on a powerstroke conversion

i have heard about people having 2 engines one powering the front axle and one for the rear....not a daily driver im sure and alot of work and engineering and tons of $$$

but just an idea if you have engines $$$ and time and you really want to get crazy

 

[black beauty]

why not just build the 302? cause like broncobill said, their is no replacement for displacement

 

[Broncobill78]

Depends on what you're looking for. For a daily driver a 302 or 302 derivative is the way to go. The bottom line on this one is that the Fox-bodied Mustangs blew the 5-liter market wide open and made the entire economy of scale possible for this block. 302 parts are now just as cheap as 350 parts and for Blue Oval guys there simply isn't a cheaper engine available. Add to that the fact that they have been SO experimented with that there are literally *dozens* of proven power combos available that I honestly think you'd be a fool to not build or buy one. The 351 is a great engine, but it simply hasn't benefitted from the same level of development, simple as that. On the other hand they've both been around a long time and there's no shortage of good combos for either, it's just that 5.0 parts are so much cheaper these days.

Now if you're looking for something for a tow-rig then, sure, I can get behind a solidly built 351 because the extra cubes will help with the towing torque but I have trouble justifying the milage penalty in a daily driver that doesn't tow very often. But, hey, that's just me.

For a part-time trail rig, weekend toy or competition truck I would have to go hands down with the 460. You can easily build a 400hp "basic" engine or anything up to & over 800hp if you want. The block will support just about anything you want to do with it. Granted parts aren't cheap but they don't cost what Hemi-stuff does. I've built several across the spectrum from mild to wild and not been disappointed by any of them. The 460 has loads of low-end torque and it has the power to break all but the strongest of drivetrains. A 460, NP205 & Dana 60's is an indestructable & unbeatable combination. I've built them and a combo like that will keep turning the tires and it will ALWAYS move you either forward or down but you won't stop moving until the framerails bottom out. I've run them on the road & in competition and that combo ALWAYS delivers. It may not be cheap but you always get you're money's worth and you enjoy every moment. For what it's worth I think it's the best combo available and anyone looking to build a truck just to go out & have FUN with should consider it.

 

[Broncobill78]

Ah man, so I should've gotten a 302 to build? :*( makes me a bit sad. Oh well, if it only last for a year, I'll build another one! WOO HOO! Damn, I'm ****** money on motors like moviestars do on "cosmetic" shit! Oh well, I enjoy it!

Well Bidi, you seem to just be having so much FUN building a whole new engine every 6 to 9 months I figured why spoil your day, you just enjoy it so much. /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> Why in the *world* would someone spend the same money on a 20K late-model factory EFI engine from a wreck and ruin all that annual enjoyment ???? No, You Da MAN <thump, thump> and I *DO* expect you to stop in for a few cold ones on your way up North.