Intro and Advice?

[harbinger]

Hey fellow Bronco fans, I recently purchased my first truck and found a "steal" on a bronco (I got it from a guy who sucked at being mechanic). 89 5.8 c6  137k on the odometer.

So I have a few projects lined up and I would like to do them as efficiently as possible. Here's a breakdown, problems first, maintenance after:

Oil Pressure: Starts fine but after a few minutes goes to zero at idle and spikes back up to normal sporadically above idle RPMs.

Valve Covers are leaking

Harmonic balancer is a little wobbly and leaks oil from the front. 

Timing Chain: not sure when last replaced (if ever)

Water pump: same

What I've done: fix all three window motor regulators, replace transmission pan and filter, oil change, coolant flush (in process).

So here's my tentative plan for the big project. I have already ordered a new double roller chain and sprockets, water pump, felpro valve cover gaskets, front main seal, harmonic balancer, mech oil gauge, spark plugs, plug wires, distributor cap and rotor, radiator hoses, thermostat, PCV, and timing cover gasket set.  I would like to replace all at thesame time to save repetition. The problem I am having in my head though is that I feel like i should replace the oil pump and pan gasket while I have everything apart so save me from having to take all the same items off again to get back to the oil pump if the oil pressure is still low after replacing all the seals. (the felpro timing cover gasket set I ordered says that I have to use the matching oil pan gasket, which I have.) I guess I just answered my own question about necessity of replacing the oil pump there, but thanks for providing a medium for me to communicate with myself through. /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />  

1. While on this line of thinking, I keep seeing that I should check the bearings while I have the oil pan off. 

2. At this mileage, should I be worried about the bearings?  

3. Could the possible cause my harmonic balancer wobble?

4. Should a decent (if low in experience) shadetree mechanic attempt to change out the bottom end bearings?

5. Do I really have to change out the pick up tube when changing the pump or can I just clean it?  

6. I had to change the transmission pan because someone over-torqued it before or something and the bolt holes were all a little taller than the rest of the sealing surface, and I'm afraid that will be the same issue with the oil pan, has anyone else had this problem?

I have done a good bit of searching and learning and I appreciate all of you for being here to answer all of us new bronco owners' questions. I hope to one day pass the knowledge along.

 

[miesk5]

yo harbinger,

WELCOME and congrats on the Bronco!

I'll post a few things for now and get back here later today if I can.

Oil Pressure & Gauge first;

Circuit Operation 87-96 F Series & Bronco; "...In recent years, Ford Motor Company has been doing something I view as a bit sneaky. They have taken the oil pressure gauge and turned it into a glorified warning light. It says it's an oil pressure gauge, it looks like an oil pressure gauge, but in reality it is not. starting in 1986 a change was made on some models that altered the function of the oil pressure gauge as we knew it. The variable resistance sending unit was replaced with an open/closed switch and an in-line 20 ohm resistor was installed between the gauge and the switch. Anytime you have more than 4.5 psi of oil pressure, the switch closes, completing the circuit from the gauge (with the 20 ohm resistor in-line) to ground. This then results in a gauge that reads just above the middle. As you can see, there is no variation to the gauge needle in this circuit. It will either read no oil pressure or half-scale (normal oil pressure). On this style of gauge circuit, if the oil pressure gauge reads in the middle, it is telling you only one thing - you have more than 4.5 psi of oil pressure. How much more is anyone's guess at that point. When oil pressure drops below 4.5 psi, the gauge will return to 0 and alert the driver of a problem

To determine what style circuit you have, simply ground the sending unit wire with the key on. If the gauge reads exactly half-scale, you can be fairly sure you need a switch-style sender. If you ground the sender wire and the gauge pegs, a variable resistor-style sender is needed..."

Test & Installation Tips in a 90; "...My oil pressure gauge was reading on the "N" of the NORMAL range. After doing some research it seemed like it could be the oil pressure switch, also known as a sensor or sending unit. Disconnect the wire from the switch, ground it to the truck and turn the key on. If your gauge quickly moves to the left, the problem is most likely the switch. The switch on my 5.8 is located near the oil filter. It is in a difficult spot to work on so I advise that you go to NAPA and get an Oil Pressure Switch socket to do the job. The cost is about $7-$8, this will save you time and will help you reinstall the new switch. Wrap some teflon tape around the threads and install. Make sure that it is in tight, I don't know about torque specs, I just put mine in quite snug. Hook the wire back on and start your engine. For me it was the cure. My oil pressure now reads over near the "M" on NORMAL

Installation, Sunpro,w/T for stock gauge in an 86 similar to 88
Source: by Sixlitre (Malcolm H, Eddie Bauer) at http://www.supermotors.net/registry/4970/22156

 

[miesk5]

yo,

Thought I had to go out and help daughter-in-law with her car.

This is general info from Ford;

Any unusual engine noises (knock, ping, etc.)

• Engine Noise

• Excessive main bearing oil clearance.

• ADJUST clearance or REPLACE main bearing.

 

• Seized or heat damaged main bearing.

• REPLACE main bearing.

 

• Excessive crankshaft end play.

• ADJUST end play or REPLACE crankshaft.

 

• Excessive connecting rod bearing oil clearance.

• ADJUST clearance or REPLACE connecting rod.

 

• Heat damaged connecting rod bearing.

• REPLACE connecting rod bearing.

 

• Damaged connecting rod bushing.

• REPLACE connecting rod bushing.

 

• Worn cylinder.

• SERVICE or REPLACE cylinder block.

This is from

1996 All F-150, F-250, F-350, F-Super Duty and Bronco Vehicles Equipped with 4.9L, 5.0L, 5.8L or 7.5L Gasoline Engines, and 7.3L Diesel Engines Workshop Manual (PARTIAL)
 
Inspect each bearing carefully. Bearings that have a scored, chipped or worn surface should be replaced. Typical examples of unsatisfactory bearings and their causes are shown in the illustration. The copper lead bearing base may be visible through the bearing overlay. If the base showing is less than 20 percent of the total area, the bearing is not excessively worn. It is not necessary to replace the bearing if the bearing clearance is within recommended limits. Check the clearance of bearings that appear to be satisfactory with Plastigage® D81L-6002-B or equivalent as described in http://www.diesel-dave.com/vehic/manual/stj/stj30029.htm#cmcrbf300

http://www.diesel-dave.com/vehic/manual/stj/stj30028.htm#extract_367

Oil Pressure Test

1. Disconnect and remove the oil pressure sensor (9278) from the engine.
   

1. Connect an Engine Oil Pressure Gauge T73L-6600-A and Transmission Test Adapter D87C-77000-A, or equivalent, to the oil pressure sender ***** port.
   

1. Run the engine until normal operating temperature is reached.
   

1. Run the engine at 3,000 rpm and record the gauge reading.
   

1. The oil pressure should be: 392-490 kPa (57-71 psi) at 3,000 rpm.
   

1. If the pressure is not within specification, check the following possible sources:
   
   • Insufficient oil
   • Oil leakage
   • Worn or damaged oil pump
   • Clogged oil pump screen cover and tube (6622)
   • Excessive main bearing clearance
   • Excessive connecting rod bearing clearance
   •  

 

[miesk5]

yo,

CHECK COOLANT FOR INTERNAL LEAKAGE

Visually inspect coolant in radiator coolant recovery reservoir for signs of transmission or engine oil.

Is oil evident in coolant?
\\
Yes No - GO to A8. If engine oil is evident on vehicles with an engine oil cooler, REMOVE engine oil cooler and INSPECT for damage. REPLACE if damaged. If engine oil is evident on vehicles without engine oil cooler or if oil cooler checks out OK, REMOVE cylinder head and INSPECT for leaking head gasket and head or block cracks.

If transmission oil is evident, replace transmission oil cooler in radiator as outlined in this section and check condition of transmission oil as outlined in this section.

A8 CHECK ENGINE AND TRANSMISSION FOR COOLANT

• Remove oil level indicator for engine and transmission.
• Carefully inspect oil level indicator for evidence of coolant.

Is coolant evident?
Yes No - Cooling system is OK If coolant is in engine oil on vehicles with an engine oil cooler, REMOVE engine oil cooler and INSPECT for damage. REPLACE if damaged. If coolant is evident in engine oil on vehicles without oil cooler or if oil cooler checks out OK, REMOVE cylinder head as outlined and INSPECT for leaking head gasket and head or block cracks.

If coolant is evident in transmission oil, REFER to transmission oil coolant check

Exhaust Color Diagnosis

http://www.freeasestudyguides.com/exhaust-color.html

Timing Chain Deflection (5.0L, 5.8L, and 7.5L)

1. Remove engine front cover (6019) as outlined in Section 03-01B (5.0L and 5.8L MFI) or Section 03-01C (7.5L MFI).
   

1. Rotate the crankshaft (6303) so the camshaft sprocket and crankshaft sprocket timing marks line up.
   

1. Mark the top link(s) of the timing chain.
   

1. Have an assistant hold crankshaft with a suitable tool so it cannot turn.
   

1. Place a machinists scale above the timing chain so you can measure its movement.
   

1. Put a torque wrench and socket on the camshaft sprocket bolt.
   

1. Apply a maximum of 20 Nm (15 lb-ft) torque in a clockwise direction.
   

1. Note location of marked link on scale.
   

1. Apply a maximum of 20 Nm (15 lb-ft) torque in a counterclockwise direction while measuring the amount the marked link moves.
   

1. Movement should be less than 3.175mm (0.12 inch). If movement is excessive, replace timing chain
   

Timing Chain Slack Test

 

[nelbur]

Before you tear into the engine, you can learn a lot by changing to a thick oil made for worn engines, to see if you can get oil pressure at hot idle.    If an inexpensive 20W50 oil gives enough idleing oil pressure to register on your oil gauge when the engine is at operating temperature, you might want to drive it awhile before you tear it down.   If you do remove the engine, replace all the bearings.   Seals do not affect oil pressure, and the oil pump is fairly bullet proof on these trucks but it should be replaced as it is cheap.   Always use a good oil filter which will pass as much oil as possible such as Motorcraft (Walmart) or Wix, or Napa.   If you can afford it, a remanufactured engine will be better than a local rebuild, but if you plan to do your own work, I encourage that.

 

[harbinger]

That's a lot of awesome information.  I have researched a good bit, and I think I'll change the oil pump while I'm down there. It sounds like there is some kind of gurgling noise from the bottom.

I guess we'll see what happens when I get to the harmonic balancer, I'll probably keep going. But I appreciate the tip about the 20w50, I would rather not do all of it twice, but I'd would also rather not change the oil pump until I have to.  I'm going to start on it tomorrow and we'll see how far I get. 

So (maybe this is for a new thread), but the description on my fel-pro timing cover gasket says i have to use the one piece oil pan gasket with it...  that seems like they are telling me I have to change the oil pan gasket. True? or can I just keep my oil pan the way it is and still properly reseal the timing cover?

 

[Elmo]

You do not have to change the oil pan gasket if you are only doing the timing cover. I use a good thick bead of silicone (not too much but enough ) all on the bottom of the timing cover and  your good to go.

 

[harbinger]

Thanks, I thought I had read that about the bead of silicone, but had only seen it once, so I wasn't sure if it was legit.  I was hoping I didn't have to drop the oil pan, because that means the exhaust would need to come off (at least partially) and that would mean more money for replacement exhaust parts. I'm going to do the chain and seal and harmonic balancer while I put in a mech oil pressure gauge and up the viscosity and see what happens.  

As far as a rebuild goes, there is a guy about an hour from me that has a "rebuilt" 351w for cheap (probably $200 delivered) that I'm thinking about buying and building that up to drop in when I need to pull this one. 

 

[harbinger]

So instead of starting a new thread, I figured I'd just ask here. Can anyone tell me what this part is?  is it supposed to look like that?  When grabbing the nut with a wrench, the bolt seems rather frail and bendy, so I'm going to the parts store to get a deep socket. 

also, if a different spot, I found one of the valve cover bolts was missing.

 

[harbinger]

and the harmonic balancer I ordered is not the same...

 

[miesk5]

So instead of starting a new thread, I figured I'd just ask here. Can anyone tell me what this part is?  is it supposed to look like that?  When grabbing the nut with a wrench, the bolt seems rather frail and bendy, so I'm going to the parts store to get a deep socket. 

also, if a different spot, I found one of the valve cover bolts was missing.

Yo H,

That is the timing pointer

Setting the timing by Ryan M

http://web.archive.org/web/20131229164125/http://oldfuelinjection.com/?p=71

  Spark Output (SPOUT) Connector  Location pic @ distributor in an 88; "...Distributor-mounted TFI-IV module & SPOUT connector on 84-91 trucks looking straight across the radiator & fan belt at the base of the distributor..."

Source: by unknown via Jem270 & Steve83



======

Who did you buy the Harmonic Balancer from?

 

[harbinger]

Thanks for the timing link. I got the balancer from Rock auto

 

[harbinger]

So I got it all back together, installed mech oil pressure gauge, new water pump and bolts, new double roller chain, new dummy light, new rad hoses and harmonic balancer. Oil pressure still pretty low after warm up, below ten usually, below five at low idle. Already running 20w50 with half quart of lucas oil stabilizer in it. I could replace the oil pump and see if that helps, but since the pressure is where it should be on startup, I'm thinking it is the bearings.The Lucas bottle says I can go up to 60%, but that seems high. I was thinking about putting two quarts stabilizer and three quarts 20w50 in it to hopefully get a few more months out of it.  I've never had a huge old ford engine, so all of this extra weight in the oil is new to me. I've never even really considered oil pressure before, but I'm having a good time because learning a new system is half of the reason I bought the truck!

 

[Seabronc]

The stock gauge is notoriously inaccurate.  You might want to consider installing a wet gauge.  I ran with 20W50 and a quart of Lucas for  several years and even when the stock gauge registered 0, my wet gauge indicated that the actual pressure was around 20 psi at warm idle.  Also use a good quality oil filter.  I never use Fram after having two of them fail.  I always used a high quality Baldwin truck oil filter after that.  The here was a lot of discussion over Fram Oil filters which may have actually gotten them to do some improvements, but I won't go back to them even if they claim to have solved the problems.

That's my .02 on the subject.  0

Good luck,

>-

PS. newer Bronco's only use a pressure switch instead of an actual pressure sender unit.  The result of that is to make the gauge show mid-range reading if there is enough pressure to operate the switch, if not you get a 0 indication.  I'm not sure what year they started doing that.

 

[harbinger]

It's been a while but I will update for the sake of not having an unfinished problem thread so we can continue to educate those learning like me. 

Oil pressure still pretty low, and since I bought the truck to haul my dirtbike around, it won't get too many miles but it will see the interstate. 

I might just run with it until i start hearing noises, but I'm having a hard time biting the bullet on pulling the engine... 

 

[miesk5]

Yo H,

In past and maybe in future, we lived with what we had; re, $ available vs. vehicle needs, as I figure you do as well.

Ran a 53 Ford Custom Line coupe6 into bearing seize and then did an engine R&R at local yard.

Here is the bearing R&R in a 96, but sim to your 89

Section 03-01B: Engine, 5.0L and 5.8L MFI

1996 F-150, F-250, F-350 and Bronco Vehicles Equipped with 5.0L or 5.8L MFI Engines Workshop Manual

IN-VEHICLE SERVICE

http://www.diesel-dave.com/vehic/manual/stj/stj31b31.htm

Crankshaft Main Bearings

The main bearing inserts are selective fit. Refer to Section 03-00.

Removal

1.Drain the crankcase. Remove the oil level dipstick (6750). Remove the oil pan (6675)and related parts.

2.Remove the oil pump screen cover and tube (6622) and the oil pump (6600).

3.Replace one crankshaft main bearing (6333) at a time, leaving the other crankshaft main bearings securely fastened. Remove the main bearing cap to which new crankshaft main bearings are to be installed.

4.Insert Main Bearing Insert Tool TOOL-6331-E in the oil hole in the crankshaft (6303).

5.Rotate the crankshaft in the direction of engine rotation to force the crankshaft main bearing out of the cylinder block (6010).

6.Clean each crankshaft journal. Inspect the journals and ****** faces (****** bearing) for nicks, burrs or bearing pickup that would cause premature crankshaft main bearing wear.

7.If the rear crankshaft main bearing is being replaced, remove and discard the crankshaft rear oil seal (6701).

Installation

1.To install an upper crankshaft main bearing, place the plain end of the crankshaft main bearing over the shaft on the locking tang side of the block and partially install the crankshaft main bearing so that Main Bearing Insert Tool TOOL-6331-E can be inserted in the oil hole in the crankshaft. With Main Bearing Insert Tool TOOL-6331-E in the hole in the crankshaft, rotate the crankshaft in the opposite direction of engine rotation until the crankshaft main bearing seats itself. Remove the tool.

2.Install the bearing cap.

3.Select-fit the bearing for proper clearance. Refer to Section 03-00.

4.If the crankshaft main bearing is being replaced on journal number 1, 2 or 4, apply a coat of Motorcraft X0-10W30-QSP or -DSP engine oil or equivalent meeting Ford specification ESE-M2C153-E to the journal and crankshaft main bearings and install the bearing cap. Tighten the cap bolts. On 5.0L engines (6007), tighten cap bolts to 82-95 Nm (60-70 lb-ft); on 5.8L engines, tighten to 129-142 Nm (95-105 lb-ft).

5.NOTE: Join components within 15 minutes of applying specified bead size of silicone rubber.

Before replacing rear main cap, apply a 1.58mm (1/16-inch) diameter bead of Silicone Rubber F4AZ-19562-B or equivalent meeting Ford specifications WSE-M4G323-A1 and ESE-M4G195-A in shaded area of cylinder block as shown.

1 — Apply 1.58mm (1.16-In.) Dia. Bead of Silicone Rubber F4AZ-19562-B or WSE-M4G323-A1 and ESE-M4G195-A Sealer As Indicated on Bearing Cap (Both Sides)

2 — Seal Groove

3 — Leave 3.10mm (1/8-In.) Gap for Sealer Expansion

4 — 1.58mm (1/16-In.) Dia. Bead Silicone Rubber F4AZ-19562-B or WSE-M4G323-A1 and ESE-M4G195-A Sealer

5 6010 Cylinder Block

6 — From Forward Face of Slinger Groove to Rear Face of Block

7 6333 Crankshaft Main Bearing

6.Lubricate the journal with Motorcraft XO-10W30 QSP or DSP engine oil or equivalent meeting Ford specification ESE-M2C153-E and install the rear main bearing cap. Tighten the cap bolts on 5.0L engines to 82-95 Nm (60-70 lb-ft); on 5.8L engines to 129-142 Nm (95-105 lb-ft).

7.If the ****** bearing cap (No. 3 main bearing) has been removed, install it as follows:

Lubricate the journal with Motorcraft XO-10W30-QSP or DSP or equivalent meeting Ford specification ESE-M2C153-E engine oil and install the ****** bearing cap with the bolts finger-tight. Pry the crankshaft forward against the ****** surface of the upper half of the ****** bearing. Hold the crankshaft cap to the rear. This will align the ****** surfaces of both halves of the crankshaft ****** main bearing (6337). Retain the forward pressure on the crankshaft. Tighten the cap bolts on 5.0L engines to 82-95 Nm (60-70 lb-ft); on 5.8L engines to 129-142 Nm (95-105 lb-ft).

8.Install a new crankshaft rear oil seal.

9.Force crankshaft toward the rear of the engine.

10.Check crankshaft end play. Refer to Section 03-00.

****** Bearing Cap, Installation

11.Clean the oil pump screen cover and tube. Prime the oil pump by filling the inlet opening with oil and rotating the oil pump intermediate shaft (6A618) until oil emerges from the outlet opening. Install the oil pump and oil pump screen cover and tube.

12.Position the oil pan gaskets on the oil pan. Install the oil pan and related parts. Install the oil level dipstick.

13. CAUTION: To prevent oil from entering the PCV system during air-powered oil fills, the closure hose should be disconnected from the oil fill pipe (6A868) and positioned away from the oil source. Cover the hose port with a shop towel to prevent oil from spilling onto the engine during oil fill. Reconnect the closure hose after the oil has been filled to the proper level.

Fill the crankcase with the proper grade and quality of engine oil. Start the engine and check for oil pressure. Operate the engine at fast idle and check for oil leaks.

 

[harbinger]

Thanks, M. 

A few clarification questions... 

7.If the rear crankshaft main bearing is being replaced, remove and discard the crankshaft rear oil seal (6701).

That would mean disconnecting Engine from Transmisison?  Or is this what I would end up using as a replacement for rear main oil seal? 

5.NOTE: Join components within 15 minutes of applying specified bead size of silicone rubber.
Before replacing rear main cap, apply a 1.58mm (1/16-inch) diameter bead of Silicone Rubber F4AZ-19562-B or equivalent meeting Ford specifications WSE-M4G323-A1 and ESE-M4G195-A in shaded area of cylinder block as shown.

Should I use plastigauge to determine clearances?

If fitting main bearing in-vehicle, position a jack under counterweight adjoining bearing which is being checked. Support crankshaft (6303) with jack so its weight will not compress Plastigage® D81L-6002-B or equivalent and provide an erroneous reading.  

Can someone dumb this down for me a little?  mainly where to place the jack?

Also, do i really need special bearing removal/install tool? 

I'm less intimidated now that I've removed the oil pan and oil pump (what a PITA) but I know this is the part I don't want to mess up. 

 

[miesk5]

yo H,

That would mean disconnecting Engine from Transmisison?  Or is this what I would end up using as a replacement for rear main oil seal? YES

Should I use plastigauge to determine clearances? YES

If fitting main bearing in-vehicle, position a jack under counterweight adjoining bearing which is being checked. Support crankshaft (6303) with jack so its weight will not compress Plastigage® D81L-6002-B or equivalent and provide an erroneous reading.  [/size]

Can someone dumb this down for me a little?  mainly where to place the jack?

I'll look for a pic Tues morning; now I'm wondering why I can't find this mentioned anywhere in http://www.diesel-dave.com/vehic/manual/stj/stjs31bl.htm

[Also, do i really need special bearing removal/install tool? [/size][/font][/color]

 That tool is no longer available; Check local parts stores for an equivalent tool available under their "LOAN-a-Tool" program; or ask at local machine shop.

here's an equivalent replacement;

Bearing Remover/Installer Miller Special Tools C-3059A $95.59

http://www.etoolcart.com/bearingremoverinstallerc-3059a.aspx

in ancient times, dad and uncle use brass rod.

They left all main caps loose that left crank loose to slide the oil coated (30W)bearings in-place; tap them around with a brass rod; won't scratch journals & done

carefully enough, shouldn't hurt the bearings.

 

[harbinger]

Cool, Thanks M.  I got some plastigauge and watched a few videos on how to use it. doesn't seem too bad, just a pain to do them all one at a time underneath the truck. 

Anyway, thanks again for looking for that picture. and for all the advice, I hope the crankshaft isn't all jacked up. I'll post some pics when I get there and maybe you could help determine if it is shot.