Idle loping and stalling under load

[regarrr]

So the MAP sensor itself could have an internal vacuum leak. I never thought of that. Hmmm. I wonder if AutoZone has a loner tool to check for vacuum pressures. It's been raining a lot here, and the ole girl is stuck in the driveway. Bummer.

They have a vacuum tool with a guage and accessories for $25, wouldn't that work like reading it off a tach guage?

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/catalog/a...mType=Accessory

I'm cautious with anything I buy from AutoZone, but there tools seem alright. I've had nothing but headaches with their parts in the past though.

 

[miesk5]

The internal vac leak in the MAP needs to be tested with a hand operated vacuum pump like this one by Actron at da Zone; http://www.autozone.com/autozone/catalog/a...requestid=57025 Price: $39.99

or at AMAZON http://www.amazon.com/Actron-CP7830-Hand-V...p/dp/B0009XQUK2

Ck with the store for a loaner; last time I cked here in da Pines, they didn't have it in their loan a tool program.

Still need a tachometer though. See if you can get all the stuff at the base shop. I don't know how much $ you can afford to spend on the tach, hand pump, vac gauge, DVOM etc. to test.

 

[regarrr]

I think I'm gonna wait on getting any tools until I check with the hobby shop. I like to get a good idea of what I will need to be doing before I go there because they charge by the hour. So if I can get the research out of the way, then I can dig right into the job. They open Wednesday. I picked up some carb cleaner on my way home from work, so I think I'll check for vacuum leaks in the lines and around the manifold. That's probably all I can do for right now. Wednesday I will check the fuel pressure and test the MAP sensor. They have a DVOM and all I have is an analog. Thanks for all the great info. I feel like I'm getting somewhere, at least I have a direction. Thanks Again.

 

[miesk5]

ok, in meantime pull a plug or two or 3 to check for fouling (over rich/carbon fouled) - it is one result of a bad MAP

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/engine/plugs.html

DVOM, ok, good, and again it must have that frequency measuring ability or just try that alternate test by wellsmfgcorp.com

 

[regarrr]

I did the carb cleaner test on the vacuum lines and didn't detect any leaking. I did notice a noise though, when I open the throttle from under the hood, there seems to be a loud vibrating noise coming from the right hand side of the engine. It almost sounds like very high winds wipping through a flag. Kind of a loud steady fast popping noise. I don't think it's an exhaust leak. It sounds too fast and I only hear it when I open the throttle.

Also, I said earlier that if i ran the throttle up slowly, I could get to full throttle with no problems, but I think that was wrong. When I was outside with the engine running, I ran the throttle up and when I got it almost maxed out, it started to miss. I checked that MAP sensor vacuum line real good, so I'm almost certain that line isn't leaking.

I checked two plugs on each side, they were in great shape.

 

[miesk5]

ok, right side of engine means passenger side?

If so, guessing it's the Smog pump/ hoses/filter.

I'm great @ guessing!

Another guess is a Check Valve; forgot your engine type so here are 2 diagrams by Steve83

http://www.supermotors.org/vehicles/regist...a.php?id=252396

http://www.supermotors.org/vehicles/regist...a.php?id=252398

I had one rust-out in the 96; did sound sim but moreso like a blown out muffler

You need a helper w/safety glasses & NAVY know-how as to following your directions to do either the throttle portion or locate the noise by using a piece of garden hose, etc. as a stethoscope.

 

[regarrr]

Passanger side, yes.

From the picture, It looks like the noise is coming from the air pump resonator. Around that area anyway. Any chance that could be causing my problem?

Also on the driver side of the engine, there is a canister toward the back of the engine that a fuel line goes into before going on to the engine, is that another filter?

engine.bmp

 

[miesk5]

ok, If it is coming from the air pump muffler/resonator it isn't causing the prob; should have a trouble code such as 44 or 45, etc... in KOER portion

The cannister is da Carbon Canister (Charcoal Canister, Vapor Canister for the Evaporative Emission (EVAP) System; should have a trouble code such as 85 Canister Purge Solenoid circuit failure. this is it in an 83 by Mike C http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/450748/...rcole%20can.jpg

It could be letting air into the intake manifold though

here is an overview by Steve83

EDIT; just saw the image you posted...is that leaking?

ALSO ADDED TYPICAL TROUBLE CODES ABOVE

 

[regarrr]

No it's not leaking, I didn't know if it was something that could get plugged up and starve the fuel. If I sprayed it with carb cleaner, would that tell me anything? I do notice a fuel smell after it stalls.

 

[miesk5]

See my last post for my edits in Bold

Fuel Smell.. now that's a good clue! Know where the Fuel Pressure Regulator (FPR) is..on driver side see this pic by Cole http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/148480/...acement-002.jpg

Quick Test; "...Pull the red vacuum line & check for gasoline..."

Testing, Bronco & Ford - A high pressure fuel tester must be connected to the fuel relief valve on the fuel rail (usually a Schrader valve). First relieve fuel system pressure, then attach the tester. Next, turn the key on (engine off) to prime the fuel system. There should be 36-42PSI of pressure. Start the engine. The pressure at idle should remain within the same range. Rev the engine a few times to ensure fuel pressure remains constant. Excess pressure usually determines a faulty FPR. Too little pressure could be the FPR, fuel filter, fuel pumps, or a leak.

Source: by broncoii.org

 

[miesk5]

No it's not leaking, I didn't know if it was something that could get plugged up and starve the fuel. If I sprayed it with carb cleaner, would that tell me anything? I do notice a fuel smell after it stalls.

no, don't spray.

Can you run the engine @ idle now to get engine temp up to normal so you can run the KOER portion? I forget if you did run that portion or had to stop w/just the KOEO

 

[BRONCOKID88]

my FPR went out a while back. when I would slow down or stop the engine would cut off, then one day it cut off and I tried cranking it a few times, then heard a loud pop, then it wouldn't turn over. Long story short my FPR went out and was flooding my engine with gas until it was completely flooded. I had it towed and the mechanic told me thats what happened, he drained the engine and let it dry, and replaced the FPR and it doesn't cut off anymore. They only charged me about $200 to fix it so it should be pretty cheap to do it yourself, don't know if this is your problem though. But it sounds almost like what happened to me.

Hope it helps,

Mitch

 

[miesk5]

Steve,

What should his next Troubleshooting Steps be?

I was thinking of one list with NO Diagnostic Tools/Gauges/Scanners (@ home)

1. do both Code Checks; KOEO & KOER w/engine @ normal operating temperature*

2. Find that pass side Noise Source

3. On idling engine; "...Check for vacuum leaks using a mechanic's stethoscope with the probe removed, or a ~3' garden hose. Don't spray flammables on a running engine. Also check the brake booster, the 2ndry air (coffee can) & HVAC vacuum reservoirs..." (copied Steve83's info, thnx) around intake manifold; and maybe under dash behind control panel vac line area?

* The engine temperature must be greater than 50

 

[regarrr]

Al, I noticed you said to check the brake booster. Is that tied in somehow? Because my brakes have been acting goofy. My reservoir was empty one morning, it hasn't done that since I refilled it, so I almost forgot about it.

I will do the other checks today after work. They close at 8 so I'll post what I find out.

 

[regarrr]

No it's not leaking, I didn't know if it was something that could get plugged up and starve the fuel. If I sprayed it with carb cleaner, would that tell me anything? I do notice a fuel smell after it stalls.
no, don't spray.

Can you run the engine @ idle now to get engine temp up to normal so you can run the KOER portion? I forget if you did run that portion or had to stop w/just the KOEO

Yes it will run in idle. I will do the KOEO check this afternoon.

 

[miesk5]

Yes it will run in idle. I will do the KOEO check this afternoon.

The brake booster vac line is where most insert a T fitting for a vac gauge hook-up; you can leave it in permanently and run the new hose in thru the clutch blank plate and mount the gauge on dash/A Pillar, etc. for an "everyday MPG driving tool" and troubleshooter

Vacuum Gauge Tester Instructions

http://www.fordf150.net/howto/diagnoseengine.php

this is by William T; "...I have a vacuum gauge mounted right in the dash of my truck. I use it to also help determine the load my engine is under while driving, and to estimate fuel economy.

Here is the gauge mounted:..."



http://www.tradervar.com/Vacuum-Pressure%20Tester.pdf

--------------------------------------------------

ok, do BOTH KOEO and KOER

 

[regarrr]

Ok. KOER that's what I meant. But it will run in idle. Good info on the brake thing. That's pretty cool.

 

[miesk5]

ok... post any Codes found here.

I'll be away again tomorrow. May be able to get on-line once in morning and hopefully again in afternoon.

Then will be away from Friday in late morning until Sat afternoon.

I'm sure you'll get A#1 advice from others here. Prob better thean the piecemeal stuff Ive been dropping on you.

later..will be here until 1700 hrs today..EDST

 

[regarrr]

Alright! Fixed! Ok I pulled KOEO and KOER codes and got 22 during both tests. I checked the vacuum line from the MAP sensor one more time, just to make sure it was ok. Then I checked the fuel pressure, and that was good too. I decided to buy the MAP sensor. After installing the new one she fired up and idled good and ran fine too! Thanks again for all the help. I probably wouldn't have considered the MAP sensor if it wasn't for you guys because it was less than a year old. Lesson learned? No more parts from AutoZone.

Thanks for the thing on the vacuum guage. I will look more into putting a setup like that on mine too.

Thanks Again

-Josh

 

[miesk5]

Great Josh!

Good job.