How can you tell what engine you have?

[Dragon34x]

Hey everyone,

I just got a 1985 bronco which is supposed to have a 351w 4bl in it. Well, i just gave it its initial tune up and im running into a small issue here.

I was changing the spark plugs/cables ignition rotor/cap and well. . . . .After reinstalling those, the truck wont start! After trying to put the cables in the firing order that they should be in and no go, i tried using the 302's configuration and still would not fire up. I then pulled the whole distributor out, re-timed it, and still will not turn on. (i even tried turning it 180 degrees to see if it might have been that too, and still wouldnt fire up)

I then thought to myself about when i first pulled the cables off, the cables where all in diffrent diffrent slots from what they are now. I'm beginning to suspect that the engine thats in right now, isnt the original engine. . . the bottom half of it looks new (the block). My question is; Is there any markings on the block itself that tell you what engine it is? (like most modern engines, have the engine code engraved somewhere on the block)

Also, just about all the electrical wiring seems to be jacked up pretty badly, meaning you can tell that this car was broken into and had the stereo yanked out plus what ever other wires run behind it wire all cut up too. I'm assuming from all this, that this is also the reason why the turn signals do not work, and also why the passenger side and rear window do not open. Is there anyone here that could help me out with this too? (i've looked at wiring diagrams, and well. . . .still cannot figure all this out)

 

[John Eversoll]

Hey everyone,
I just got a 1985 bronco which is supposed to have a 351w 4bl in it. Well, i just gave it its initial tune up and im running into a small issue here.

I was changing the spark plugs/cables ignition rotor/cap and well. . . . .After reinstalling those, the truck wont start! After trying to put the cables in the firing order that they should be in, i tried using the 302's configuration and still would not fire up. I then pulled the whole distributor out, re-timed it, and still will not turn on.

I then thought to myself about when i first pulled the cables off, the cables where all in diffrent diffrent slots from what they are now. I'm beginning to suspect that the engine thats in right now, isnt the original engine. . . the bottom half of it looks new (the block). My question is; Is there any markings on the block itself that tell you what engine it is? (like most modern engines, have the engine code engraved somewhere on the block)

Also, just about all the electrical wiring seems to be jacked up pretty badly, meaning you can tell that this car was broken into and had the stereo yanked out plus what ever other wires run behind it wire all cut up too. I'm assuming from all this, that this is also the reason why the turn signals do not work, and also why the passenger side and rear window do not open. Is there anyone here that could help me out with this too? (i've looked at wiring diagrams, and well. . . .still cannot figure all this out)

I hate to tell you this, ButI am having the same problem with my 83 351- Do you have the two stage distributor??

 

[Dragon34x]

That, i could not tell you lol. How can you tell what type of distro do you have?

 

[Yardape]

What direction did you install the firing order? Should be counter clockwise

 

[Dragon34x]

yup, im aware that the distributor rotates counter clock wise, i used one of those chilton books to help me out with the spark plug cables. i dont remember the firing order off the top of my head but i double and triple checked that each cable was connected to the right place.

Anyone know of how to tell what block you would have (hoping someone can answer this)

 

[BLADE262US]

Take a picture of the front top of the motor like looking down at it I should be able to tell you what it is , /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

 

[Dragon34x]

alrighty, i'll post it up tomorrow. Thanks.

 

[John Eversoll]

alrighty, i'll post it up tomorrow. Thanks.

check the vin and call the dealer then look for the firing order on the intake

That should do it

 

[Dragon34x]

sorry about not posting pics today, i didnt know my camera didnt have any battery juice left /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> , i'll post em up tomorrow after work.

 

[BLADE262US]

Checking the VIN and firing order on the intake wont do any good if someones been into the motor , You can put a 302 cam in a 351W only difference is the firing order and likewise a 351W cam in a 302 . But identifying the motor is a big plus /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

 

[Dragon34x]

it looks like the 351w to me, just cant figure out why timing is off? :huh:

 

[BLADE262US]

I am going to say 351W . Try this exactly . 1 take out very front passenger side spark plug . Get a breaker bar with a 15/16 socket and a 4 inch extension a piece of wire about a foot long with the ends bared and a long flathead ***** driver. Now with the plug out take one end of that wire and fasten it to the battery positive and unplug the little wire to the solenoid . 2 put your thumb over the spark plug hole now touch that wire to the small post on the starter relay and the motor will roll over you will feel the piston come up on the compression stroke and it will pop your thumb off the hole stop at this point and put a piece of tape over the bare wire end. 3 put the breaker bar on the crankshaft nut . 4 put the long screwdriver in the plug hole so you can feel the piston now pull the breaker bar to rotate the motor back to top dead center you can feel the piston with the screwdriver come right to the top then it will start down again you want it to stop right at the top . Now remove the srewdriver and breaker bar and put the plug back in . 5 pull the distributor cap off and look to see where the rotor is pointing , whichever post on the cap it is pointing at this is the wire that goes to the plug you had out #1 now going counter clockwise arrange the wires 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 . Order goes front to back starting with the front passengers side 1 through 4 drivers side front to back 5 through 8 . So the one the rotor is pointing at is passenger side front naxt one to the left is passenger side 3rd one back next left is drivers side 3rd one back and so on . If it doesnt start with that firing order ( which it probably will but will backfire when you rev it up ) try the same operation useing this firing order 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 this is the 302 firing order but if someone put a different cam in it this could have happened . Try that and see what happens /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

Found this link for a pic http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticle...ics/index3.html

 

[Dragon34x]

Thanks, i will try that this weekend. I'll let you know how it goes /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

 

[Dragon34x]

Well i gave it another try yesterday, i started off with putting the cylinder 1 at TDC (per the timing marker), the first firing order i tried was "1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8" That didnt work, so i tried it again at 180 (at first wasnt sure if i was in the compression stroke or what not. . . so i tried it 180 from the first try). Still didnt work.

Then i tried 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 and still didnt work

So i went back to attempting the first firing order but this time aligning the marker at 10 BDC. It seemed to want to start up, but just wouldnt. . . at the same time while twisting the distributor to try advancing and retarding timing to see if it would start up. . . i kinda jacked up my starter, so now i have to replace the starter. . . . again (just replaced it about a month ago lol).

Another thing i noticed was that the Carburetor is not the stock Holly one. It has a Edelbrock 4bl carb, from which knowing very little on carbs, i can atleast tell that it is not tuned, it's possibly flooding the engine (the bronco ran poorly when i bought it, cold starts where damn near impossible, gas mileage is still horrible [probably 5 miles to the gallon or so. . . not exagerating either], not to mention it takes a decade for the truck to reach 65 mph :lol: )

I also started digging into the vacuum routing, and well. . . Its really really off from what it should be. Surprisingly, there arent any vacuum leaks, but again, the vacuum routing is off from what it should be. Also the thermactor emissions system isnt connected up at all (with the exception of the previous owner routing the pump to the oil cap :wacko: , luckly it didnt have a belt on the pump itself)

As of now, the truck is still not running, anyone got any more suggestions? As im running out of ideas /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

 

[BLADE262US]

Did you pull the plug like in my directions to verify TDC compression stroke ? A vacuum leak will not keep it from starting but will run bad . /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

 

[Dragon34x]

Nope, i havent tried it, that was going to be next but the starter gave out. (it kinda ticked me off, but i will be trying this tomorrow)

Though i do have a question, what is the wire with the bare ends used for?

I understand the screwdriver part, just not the wire.

To sum it up, with the ***** driver in cylinder #1 feel out TDC, Where ever the distributor is pointing to that will be #1, from there i will connect the wires in this order ""1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8" and if that doesnt work try" 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 ".

I'm hoping to get this car running soon, as i keep getting stuck in the snow driving my other car :'(

 

[Dragon34x]

ah, never mind about the wire. After reading it 5 times i finally got it lol

If you look at the pictures above, i put a nice lil simple push start button, of which i can also connect to roll the truck over from under the hood /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

(its the bright red and black wires along the firewall in the pictures)

 

[Dragon34x]

well i just figured out why timing was off, the timing marks on the harmonic balancer are off by 90 degrees. Wonder how that happend?

 

[Big Country]

how CAN that happen??