Higher Engine Performance = destroyed tranny??

[njbrown2]

Hello again y'all. I've been on here a week and already have a new topic for discussion! Just a quick question basically. I rebuilt my 302 about 6 years ago, and in which time I haven't put a whole lot of miles on it. I went 30 over on the cylinders, RV cam, 4 barrel carb with performance intake, HEI distributor, and i think that's about it. my next project is to install headers to improve performance that much more. it still leaks oil, which is completely irrelevant but i might as well throw it out there if anyone knows some magic on fixing oil leaks. anyways, i've been having tranny problems for quite awhile now. could doing what i did to the engine ultimately destroy a stock transmission? since i rebuilt it i've replaced the rear driveshaft twice, with the newest one being heavy-duty and is holding up fine. but anyways, that's my question. could my transmission woes be blamed on this engine, and if so do i need a completely different tranny altogether? what other driveline elements might end up wreaking problems from this engine? (i'm not saying i have a badass engine and by no means do i think this truck is anywhere close to where i want it to be some far away day from now haha). any advice is appreciated. thanks y'all.

Nate

 

[S_bolt19]

Without knowing the exact specifics of the engine build, I would say that it could have the potential to cause problems with the driveline. I had that problem with my first EB. I had an engine in it that was pushing 375-400 hp and it shelled my stock 3 speed & the front axle gears at the same time. Depending on what year EB you have, the typical weak links for those drivelines in 66-70 EBs is the transmission and the front axle. The front axle because it is a Dana 30 axle, which is basically a 1/4 ton axle and is under most pre TJ style Jeeps, which aren't as heavy as a Bronco. All EBs, doesn't matter what year, 66-77, the weak link is the transmission. The original 3 speed is a car transmission that Ford used instead of putting something in them like a 1/2 ton pickup tranny. The front axle problem was solved in 70 when they went to the bigger and stronger Dana 44 axle, which is a 1/2 ton front axle. The 44 was used under both big Broncos & 1/2 ton pickup trucks. The best part of an EB running gear is the rear axle. It doesn't matter what year, they came with either the small or big bearing 9". Both are one of the most used rear axles in the 4x4 world and the big bearing being used in the drag racing & stock car worlds. The only problem with the rear axle is that it is typically a 28 spline instead of the stronger 31 or 35 splined axles. So, in my unprofessional opinion, I would say to you that #1 if you started having tranny problems once this engine was put in, then yes, this engine is too much for that transmission. Although the tranny could have been on the fritz in the first place, the engine could have been the straw that broke the camel's back. You aren't going to find another 3 speed tranny that will stand up to a very well built engine. End of story. You are going to have to go to a 4 or 5 speed transmission or keep your foot out of the pedal. The driveshafts are a casualty of a stronger engine through torque. If you are snapping driveshafts, then it is time to have a custom shaft built that will stand up to what you have. Hope that answers your question and doesn't just muddle the waters for you.

 

[Bully Bob]

Hi Nate.,

IMHO,

Your eng. is not a problem as to any drive line failures. (it's still mild)

The best built rigs out there snap every poss. element in their drivelines, (speaking mainly of mud, sand, & rock runners) fr. engines to rear axles.

You've given no indication of your driving skills or usage of this rig.

Do fill-in your info. pages on this site so as to rec. more correct help. (signature--it will show at the bottom of all your posts)

If you're trying to make a "street-racer" EB.., you might want to re-think that.

As to your prev. post..

I don't have a column for sale.

You didn't answer..., were the two colums you put in used, or what..?

A floor shifter is the best mod, to be made, to an EB.

Your trannie has likely been in service more than "30 yrs." It's not going to withstand any abuse, at this point, & is prob. due for a freshing up.

To me, that speaks highly of this trannie under intended use.

"Rule of thumb"

For every 'one' thing you change in a drive-line.., (& any other engineering changes for that matter) 'two' others will need changing... :blink:

 

[njbrown2]

hey guys thanks for the advice, and bully for bursting my "i think my engine is sweet" bubble! haha jk. i did my "signature" so let me know if there's anymore info you think i should include. i don't know the specifics on the engine right now, other than it's a 302 and the things i've done to it, i'm not a numbers guy (english major = no numbers). anyways, i use it mainly to just putt around town in. i've driven it across the country several times (amarillo to montana and back, san diego and back, and currently i'm in buffalo, ny) so it's really for street use. it doesn't have a lift as i see no need in driving around town looking like i'm about to hit the trail. so, given that, would either of you have any advice on what i should do if it is indeed the tranny? would it be worth investing in a new 4 or 5 speed transmission? if i keep the 3 speed will i be doing this all over again in a few years? i'm in no rush to have it back right now, i'm about to be out of the country for 2 months so i do have that time to ponder my remedy, although having it in operational order when i return would be very nice, at least out of the shop with some transmission options. i'm going to see a guy tomorrow who claims to have a large array of EB parts, so perhaps that will be of some luck. On a personal note, Commando, where in Colorado are you from if you don't mind me asking? I spend a lot of time in Durango, although i've never had my bronco up there. Bully, i'm not sure if the steering column was rebuilt or used, i'm thinking rebuilt. anyways, we shall know soon enough if it's the transmission or not. i'm almost convinced, at this point, that it is indeed the tranny. thanks again for your advice guys, it's certainly appreciated.

 

[Bully Bob]

KEWL...!!!

"would it be worth investing in a new 4 or 5 speed transmission?"

--- In a word., "NO" ---

A refurbished 3 speed & floor shifter would last you 30+ yrs. as you use it.

--- You could drop 1-2 large puting in a diff. trannie ---

(Mine has 20+ yrs. on it & still going strong... & I don't baby it out in the rough)

(Not sure how many miles PO put on it B/4 I got it)

Noooo., /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> That is a good eng. set-up... but even with headers & pipes it's still maybe 175-185 HP. Way below a drive-line eater.

Good job on the sig....it's just there to show any & all mods, up-grades, basically anything you know about your rig. Obviously, it saves the same question being asked over & over, etc.

 

[njbrown2]

well that's great news to hear! i think i dig this place better than facebook now haha. how does one figure out how much horsepower their engine has? other than the obvious ease of shifting gears, does upgrading to a floor shifter have any other benefits? thanks again for the input!

 

[Bully Bob]

"how does one figure out how much horsepower their engine has?"

Welllll...,

--- This is one of the biggest mysteries of the universe --- :wacko:

Ford moved the EB compression ratio up & down several times fr. 1966-77

(Compression up = more HP.)

I can tell you this... 1972 EB rolled out with published 140 horse.

Just ballbark'n here....your re-bore may have given you a couple HP

The carb...maybe 10 HP

The cam mostly just moves the "power curve" i.e. RV cam gives a bit more low-end grunt.

Ignition.... a couple HP over worn out points type.

The only "true" answer is...... One would have to dr. it up onto a "Dyno" prior to any mods.

THEN again after eng. re-build, & mods are installed.

The Dyno gives a true reading of power to the rear wheels & ultimately, to the ground...which is the important number.

Most folks are shocked with Dyno readings.... a 200 HP eng. may show 150 HP at the rear wheels. /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> (

"does upgrading to a floor shifter have any other benefits?"

A bit....looks better, shifts better, adjustable, lasts forever, but mainly gets rid of all that "monkey-motion" runn'n down the column to eng. compartment, then back to the trannie.

All that stuff is prone to adj. problems, or failure. (in Fords & Chevys)

 

[njbrown2]

Hey Bully, once again thank you for your advice. I just got the bronco back from the transmission shop and the good news is that it isn't the tranny but the column. This makes the 3rd (and a half if you count the shift collar)since I've had it. Given that, I'm very hard pressed to opt to the floor shifter. In all practicality it makes the most sense, and with your experience, I find it well-advised. However, I'm struggling with the choice! I don't mind the "monkey motion," part of me quite enjoys its primitive qualities haha. So, if I opt to buy a rebuilt column, do you think I will be buying another rebuilt column again in a few years? In the back of my mind I know if I absolutely MUST return to the column I can always reconvert it and fix the hole in the floor. Granted that I don't do any trail driving, do you still think it's the best way to go? Also, I have an aftermarket console (Tuffy product found on pretty much every bronco website). Will I be able to leave it there or would the floor shift require its complete removal or simply readjusting it? Ok, once again I've asked too many questions, but thank you again for your advice and opinion.

Nate

 

[Bully Bob]

Hi Nate., thanks for the kind words.... /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

Actually., If I had a column re-built., --OR-- I re-built it myself...I would expect it to last AT LEAST 20 yrs. B/4 it started acting up.

That's why I asked about yours....in that I was curious who, what, how, where it was done.

I know Tom's & Wild Horses on the left coast do a good job & use all new parts. I'm not sure if JBG there on the right coast does them but I would think they do a good job as well.

Many folks out there like everything as orig. as poss. & a restored column will do that.

If I got a rig with a smooth work'n column shift..I would leave it alone & use it 'til it acted up....if ever.

We that run the trails, etc. prefer the floor shifter as it sits right next to the transfer case shifter & that makes it handy for zipp'n thru S turns & up-n-down hill-n-dale...!!

The floor shift lever sits forward of the dr. seat.., & in line with the right side of the seat. It shouldn't bother any console between seats however... the formed adaptor (covers the hole) may get in the way depending on where your console is located. This may req. relocating the console

Ask away.....! Someone will be around to answer most any question or voice an opinion. :-B

 

[njbrown2]

Hey man, sorry for my late reply. I had my mechanic in Amarillo rebuild it the first time, that was about ten years ago. Then when that failed I ordered one from Tom's (about 98% sure on that one haha). On a positive note, I found a guy here in the Buffalo area who has 10 EB's. Today I bought two steering columns for $100 (honest opinion on that one?) haha, but I think it was a good deal. One has a steering wheel and the whole kit and caboodle. I'm going mess around with that this weekend and see what I come up with. Once again, I thank you for your advice! Wish me luck on this one haha!

Nate

 

[69bronc347]

i think personally you should opt for a 4 or 5 speed conversion, you don have to worry about breaking it because most of the trans swapped in are at least half ton, and it will make it a shit ton better to drive, and the awnser to oil leaks is not to use the crappy cork gaskets and use a high quality silicone or gasket maker

 

[bigbluebronc]

Hello again y'all. I've been on here a week and already have a new topic for discussion! Just a quick question basically. I rebuilt my 302 about 6 years ago, and in which time I haven't put a whole lot of miles on it. I went 30 over on the cylinders, RV cam, 4 barrel carb with performance intake, HEI distributor, and i think that's about it. my next project is to install headers to improve performance that much more. it still leaks oil, which is completely irrelevant but i might as well throw it out there if anyone knows some magic on fixing oil leaks. anyways, i've been having tranny problems for quite awhile now. could doing what i did to the engine ultimately destroy a stock transmission? since i rebuilt it i've replaced the rear driveshaft twice, with the newest one being heavy-duty and is holding up fine. but anyways, that's my question. could my transmission woes be blamed on this engine, and if so do i need a completely different tranny altogether? what other driveline elements might end up wreaking problems from this engine? (i'm not saying i have a badass engine and by no means do i think this truck is anywhere close to where i want it to be some far away day from now haha). any advice is appreciated. thanks y'all.

Nate

Haahaa your 302 is good but not bad ass I got my 302 eb with a drag cam and 4 barrel carb no headers but milled heads ,put headers on it and it sounded fast haha on the sounded fast, it was hard too drive on the trails rebuildt the heads because they where toasted because of the cam and changed the cam down too rv ish cam and got a ton of torque at 2000 and below rpm and thats where I run in the dirt and rocks and changed the whole rig too propane cause I am too dumb for fuel injection, I never killed a three speed I broke axles three times front and rear never broke a three speed ask bully bob I gave my 3 speed too him I now run a np435 four speed and only for the gearing...BBB