another problem with my window

50joe

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And if you think about it, the motor housing is already grounded to the door when its bolted up. (and for the record, its not whos smarter, just who has done more of what. I'm sure he could teach me a few things, and I him)

 
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Devil Dog08

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And if you think about it, the motor housing is already grounded to the door when its bolted up. (and for the record, its not whos smarter, just who has done more of what. I'm sure he could teach me a few things, and I him)
i thought of that and i was really confused when the ryder mech , told me this .. the way you metioned above is the way i am going to go i do not want to fry my wiring system in the truck . just off the top of your head what do you think a shop would charge to do this? you are up in Trenton n.j would you be interested in the job? im up by franklin mills mall . i meant to tell you this the other day every once in a while i am driving my alt guage on the dash drops down to 8 then i will be driving and it will go back to normal.. i was just wondering if it could be revelant to my window problem
 

50joe

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Almost impossible to fry anything with an ohm meter, so wouldn't worry about that. Most repair shops only charge for the time it takes to take to find the problem. Labor rates vary from area to area, so would be hard to put a price on it. As far as me, i'm usually running two weeks behind all the time, since in addition to customers, I have two municipalities and 3 REALLY worn out tow trucks to attend to. The gauge dropping out MAY be related, but thats hard to prove. Could be anything from a bad regulator in the alternator, to a loose/dirty connection, to a short in the system. Although, depending on which alternator is in there, I have come across several fords of that era where the plug into the alternator overheats and melts. May wanna glance at the connections to make sure they are tight and intact. (BTW, last time I checked, those window switches are relatively inexpensive.)

 

Devil Dog08

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Almost impossible to fry anything with an ohm meter, so wouldn't worry about that. Most repair shops only charge for the time it takes to take to find the problem. Labor rates vary from area to area, so would be hard to put a price on it. As far as me, i'm usually running two weeks behind all the time, since in addition to customers, I have two municipalities and 3 REALLY worn out tow trucks to attend to. The gauge dropping out MAY be related, but thats hard to prove. Could be anything from a bad regulator in the alternator, to a loose/dirty connection, to a short in the system. Although, depending on which alternator is in there, I have come across several fords of that era where the plug into the alternator overheats and melts. May wanna glance at the connections to make sure they are tight and intact. (BTW, last time I checked, those window switches are relatively inexpensive.)

[ since the truck is 15 years old maybe i will just buy new switchs for the window . it seem to me you kind of believe it is a bad ground in on e of the switchs....thank you so much for all your help
 

50joe

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Gotta figure, if the switches are old, and cheap, may just save you alot of time and agravation. That and my bosses 92 F-150 did the same thing, and was his master switch, so hopefully it works out.

 

69bronc347

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bronco wiring diagram.gifok so here it is the windows use the same power and ground for both sides, just checking but both sides wont go down, if both sides wont do down you have a problem with the ground after the switch, i have a wiring diagram with the problem area circled, the open is after the switch but before the splice do your self a favor and check the wiring to the switch the splice is supposed to be close to the switch, you may have power you may not have ground, think of electricity as water for water to flow it needs to have a entrance and and exit, does that make sense
 

downhomer

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:) /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />>-It has been my experince with the Rear window that most of the Problems have been in the Dash switch. I went to the Bone yard and gathered up a used one and took it apart to understand why mine was not always contacting and after close inspection and a small amount of spring adjustment it worked like new...
 

broncostyle

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i was having the same problem,the window would go up but would not go dwn. ends up it was the switch on the dash. i put a new switch in and now it works fine. switch was 60.00 bucks from a near ford dealership. good luck

 

Jgrden

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I have been lurking on the sidelines with the same issues. Mine is a '85.  All I get is a click on the passenger window. Both windows are up and won't move. There is power going to and from both switches. They are old and worn. I think the grounds need to be confirmed and then onto the switches. Keep positing. 

 

Seabronc

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the problem with that is its not the right type of circuit to do that with. The way that works is, you start with two ground to the motor. this keeps the motor at rest. when you hit either up button, it turns one wire to power, leaves the other as a ground. this activates the motor. When you hit down, it reverses the polarity. Basicially, it takes the functions of the wires in the "up" mode, and reverses them. this makes the motor spin backwards, and makes it go down. The ground does not run through the motor housing, so I'm not sure where he thinks you can hook another ground to. If you hook it to either wire, not only will neither switch work, but it will also blow the fuse when the wire connected to ground is powered for either up or down.
Read the post.

Never told him to hook up a new ground.  As 50joie said, it will only work properly if hooked up as originally designed and shown in the circuit diagram.  the comment about grounds was in reference to a broken wire.  If one of the wires to the motor is broken, and if you measure the voltage at the motor you will see 12v on both wires when the functioning wire has 12V applied to it. 

No offense intended, but If you don't know how to troubleshoot using the diagram, I would suggest you find a friend who is more familiar with wireing diagrams and trouble shooting.

The most probable cause of the failure is a broken wire, more than likely where the wires flex as a door is opened and closed.  Probably one of the Y/BK or R/BK or the ground BK shown on the left side of the diagram.

Good luck,

:)>-

 
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Seabronc

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i was having the same problem,the window would go up but would not go dwn. ends up it was the switch on the dash. i put a new switch in and now it works fine. switch was 60.00 bucks from a near ford dealership. good luck
I believe this thread is about the side door windows.  It could be a switch problem, but it is much more cost effective to trouble shoot till the failing component, fuse, connector, wire or switch is located.  Throwing parts at a problem is not trouble shooting.

:)>-

 
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Jgrden

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The power to the drivers side switch is constant around 9.5 volts. Ground is good. Power is to the lead into the motor. I have not tested the passenger side. Wouldn't you think that the passenger side switch is used less than the driveers side and therefore less prone to failure? Tomorrow we will work on the passenger side to test the electrical energy going to the motor. Buying two motors at $29.00 each seems not right. Should only be one motor. After checking the passenger side electrics and they look good, we will pull the drivers side motor out and test it. What do you think?

 

miesk5

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yo J,

FYI,

Troubleshooting and Testing Electrical Systems with a Multi meter

excerpt;

"VOLTAGE

This test determines voltage available from the battery and should be the first step in any electrical troubleshooting procedure after visual inspection. Many electrical problems, especially on computer controlled systems, can be caused by a low state of charge in the battery. Excessive corrosion at the battery cable terminals can cause poor contact that will prevent proper charging and full battery current flow.

1.Set the voltmeter selector switch to the 20V position.

2.Connect the multi meter negative lead to the battery's negative (-) post or terminal and the positive lead to the battery's positive (+) post or terminal.

3.Turn the ignition switch ON to provide a load.

4.A well charged battery should register over 12 volts. If the meter reads below 11.5 volts, the battery power may be insufficient to operate the electrical system properly.

VOLTAGE DROP

When current flows through a load, the voltage beyond the load drops. This voltage drop is due to the resistance created by the load and also by small resistance's created by corrosion at the connectors and damaged insulation on the wires. The maximum allowable voltage drop under load is critical, especially if there is more than one load in the circuit, since all voltage drops are cumulative.

1. Set the voltmeter selector switch to the 20 volt position.

2. Connect the multi meter negative lead to a good ground.

3. Operate the circuit and check the voltage prior to the first component (load).

4. There should be little or no voltage drop in the circuit prior to the first component. If a voltage drop exists, the wire or connectors in the circuit are suspect.

5. While operating the first component in the circuit, probe the ground side of the component with the positive meter lead and observe the voltage readings. A small voltage drop should be noticed. This voltage drop is caused by the resistance of the component.

6. Repeat the test for each component (load) down the circuit.

7. If a large voltage drop is noticed, the preceding component, wire or connector is suspect.

Testing if a diode is OK

A diode is like a one-way valve. It should allow the current to only flow in one direction and prevent the current from flowing in the other direction. A good diode should show continuity in one direction and no continuity (or over range) in the other.

Do not test the diode whilst there is an external voltage (eg solar panel) connected as this will effect the outcome and possibly damage the meter.

Connect the probes to the device you want to check and

note the meter reading. Reverse the probes and note the second reading. If the one reading shows some value and the other is over range, the device is good. If both readings are over range, the device is faulty (open circuit). If both readings are very small or zero, the device is also faulty (short circuit).

Testing for Continuity

In order to measure continuity you need to have a voltage source. If there is a poor connection or a break in the house wiring it can often be located by tracing the wires from the battery bank outwards and using the battery bank as your voltage source.

With the meter on the appropriate voltage scale start by measuring the voltage at the battery. Now move to the next location where you can connect your probes as you head towards the possible location of the fault.

If at any point you measure no voltage then there is a break in the wiring between the previous test point and this one.

If you measure a drastic voltage drop (particularly with a small load turned on) this may indicate a poor connection such as a wire that is almost broken, corrosion in a connector or a wire, or it may be due to undersized wiring."

Measure voltage @ battery POSTS with engine off and all posts and terminals Clean and tight.

- should be over 12 volts DC.

Voltage; "...a normal battery that is fully charged produces 12.6 volts, not just 12.0 V. (Remember, when measuring battery voltage, everything in the car should be off, or the battery should be disconnected. Voltage measurements are always "no load" measurements unless the battery is being tested for it's performance under load)..."

Source: by Gordon via miesk5

PW Master Switch Ground is G752 as shown here; http://www.revbase.com/BBBMotor/Wd/DownloadPdf?id=27268

But I can't find a location for it; does the Left hand Poer Lock works? It shares same Ground.

 

Jgrden

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All that being said, the voltage drop is minimal to both motors. The passenger side window works when the volt meter is hooked up to it which tells me there is a bad ground, but the passenger side window works. The drivers side window has very good power to mother but it will not budge. Methinks that I need a new drivers side motor (sans regulator) and a new switch fo the passenger side and improve the ground.   Watcha tink? I have been on the sidelines, lurking and reading the other posts which has helped me understand how to find the culprit. Just want some confirmation. 

I cannot find a new power window switch on Rock Auto, XL, O'Reilly's. Do I need to visit a ghost yard?

 

miesk5

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yo,\

OK I capice now.

Get a switch from http://shop.broncograveyard.com/Door-WindowsMotors-Parts/products/189/ or try a yard queen, but those switches have endured same Use as your switches.

Try a new ground; cheapest guess I can offer now.

Operation & Diagram; "...The door window circuit is a common (Ford) polarity-reversing circuit with 1 switch for the left motor & 2 switches for the right. The switches share power feed through the ignition switch (key-on only). On Broncos, this feed is also used for the tailgate window motor's dash switch. For the left window, the left (driver's) switch normally holds both motor wires to ground. When operated, it sends one of the wires hot, powering the motor. When operated the other way, the polarity is reversed, reversing the motor's direction. For the right window, the left (driver's) switch normally holds both motor wires to ground, and the right (passenger's) switch normally holds the motor wires to the dash switch wires. When either is operated, it sends one of the wires hot, powering the motor. When operated the other way, the polarity is reversed, reversing the motor's direction. Neither switch is a "master" because neither will work if the other is in the opposite position..."

Source: by Steve

Also see Motor (door) Repair

Source: by Tracy (Stinger) at Ford Bronco Zone Forums

http://broncozone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1563

Motor (door) Replacement & Troubleshooting Chart w/ Ford Gear Part Numbers

Source: by CARDONE®

http://web.archive.org/web/20100922101619/http://cardone.com/English/Club/Products/MOTORS/Protech/Install_Instructions/93044642.asp

Motor (door) Troubleshooting Chart.gif

Motor (door) Troubleshooting Chart

Test Readings & Wiring Diagram; "...Normal readings for passenger window test with all switches, connectors, & motors connected normally. The passenger circuit is on the LEFT side of the wiring diagram..."

http://web.archive.org/web/20071109072514/http://www.supermotors.net/clubs/superford/vehicles/registry/media/448076

Source: by Steve

Side Power Window or Tailgate Tester

Source: by Michael C (collinsperformance, The Money Monster)

http://www.supermotors.net/vehicles/registry/6364/51429

Motor Interchange Info, Side & Rear Window in an 86; "...Pulled out both the motors and compaired them side to side. On one the gears faced the left and the other right, no dice. Stared at it a couple more minutes and realized that the motor for the rear window, when flipped upside down had the bolt pattern needed for it to work. Test fitted it and it cleared the speaker buy around a inch. Bolted it up and connected the wiring and it works a hell of a lot better. Its louder, but dosen't even hesitate when rolling up the window... i checked if you could swap the gearbox from the drivers side window onto the one for the rear window and it wouldn't work. The shaft on the rear motor is larger than the one for the drivers motor..."

Source: by Mrit (Chris)

 

Jgrden

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Bronco graveyard is a real hoot. O'Reilly switch is $16.00 but grave yard is $42.00, yet their door panels are allot cheaper. Just pays to shop and I appreciate another source. Thank you. Also, downloaded motor repair procedures they offered. 

 

Jgrden

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Narrowed the issue to the left side motor on the window. Took it out and hooked it up directly to the battery and NOTHING. So we are off to XL Auto Parts where they have a rebuilt one for $38.66. If the Texas heat (94) does not get to me we may install it this afternoon. 

 

Jgrden

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The new motor is installed and working just great. It even signs a tune "round and round we go..."  

But here is the new issue. The window channels are shot, zip, blotto, gone. this makes the window wobble and not know where to go. I am looking for new window channels. Rock Auto is the only source that I could find but time and shipping are in consideration.  O=Reilly, Auto Zone, XL Auto all did not carry the channels. If anyone has a source please let me know. 

 

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