'83 Starting/Charging Issue

[ledzilla]

So yesterday morning I went to take the Bronco out on a coffee run. When I tried to start it, I could hear the start slowing down and it just would not actually start. When it seemed like the battery was just about to give out, it almost started, but died after a couple seconds, and there was a little smoke coming from under that dash that had an electrical smell to it. After that it just wouldn't crank at all anymore, so I ended up taking my Expedition on the coffee run. Later on I was able to jump start the Bronco, take it for some gas and a run around and then back home, leaving it run the entire time. I came back to it later and again it was dead. Jump started again and tested the voltage to be 11.95V, which tells me there's no charging. So, some of this now makes sense, but not that smoke which did not show up again. So, it looks factory to have an external voltage regulator, which is not connected, and has some other kind of alternator on it. Not really sure what's going on with this alternator. I'm guessing it might be a 3G modification. I'm going to pull it later today. Anything I should look for on it to know if it had a replaceable voltage regulator, or some other kind of identification to figure it out? Pretty sure it isn't a 1-wire setup. Figure I also ought to figure what I need to do to connect back to some of the factory regulator wiring so I can at least get a warning light again.

Also, any idea on what might have been smoking? I wasn't able to see anything obvious.

 

[Tiha]

Ignition switch smoke? I have actually had a couple trucks do that, and that was before the switch recall. Don't remember it being an issue that old though.

Is there a part number, or sticker on the alternator? You can pull it take it to a parts store and have it tested. If there is a part number they can look it up and tell you what it is.

That will help in deciding how to move forward.

The 3g, or one wire setups were pretty popular. But the factory setup was not bad if you took the time to fix it.

 

[ledzilla]

The smoke seemed to be coming from the middle of dash, mostly towards the passenger side, so I don't think it was the switch. Not really sure, though. I guess if it doesn't happen again I'm not going to worry too much about it.

I pulled the alternator while on lunch (a nice benefit of working from home). It's looking pretty old and a bit crusty. That voltage regulator looks fairly damaged, too. I couldn't find any info stamped or embossed on the casing. There were two labels, but one is too badly damaged to read. Checking the part numbers on the remaining label and on the voltage regulator lead to other 3G alternators that have serpentine pulleys.

It's starting to look like this alternator was offered a long time ago but some company no longer around, or has been replaced by something else in a product lineup. What's weird was that the nut on the wire post was a 10mm. Had to go back to the garage for a set of metric sockets. Wasn't expecting it. Given the damage on the voltage regulator, I'm thinking maybe I can see if I can remove it. If so, get a replacement, clean up the alternator, and reinstall with some new hardware. After I take it over to a parts store to be tested first, of course. Don't want to waste effort on a fried alternator.

 

[Tiha]

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/carquest-premium-alternator-remanufactured-7771a/5210771-P?clickid=wAt1I5QluxyIUoxTyMXa6T:YUkF0hn2FxR0VW80&irgwc=1&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=ir&utm_campaign=2003851&utm_content=471942&c3ch=Affiliate&c3nid=IR-2003851

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tff-7771

Looks like Ford 3g Alternator, right off the shelf.

In edit, most likely off a 1993 or newer F series or bronco, even many cars.

 

[ledzilla]

Yeah, I saw that part from Advance, and I saw the Tuff Stuff part from Summit, too. The Tuff Stuff alternator is the closest direct install I've seen given it's one of the few that have a v-belt pulley and not a serpentine pulley. Looking up the 93+ alternators, at least for the trucks, all of the ones I saw were for a serpentine system with a belt tensioner.

 

[Tiha]

Yeah, I saw that part from Advance, and I saw the Tuff Stuff part from Summit, too. The Tuff Stuff alternator is the closest direct install I've seen given it's one of the few that have a v-belt pulley and not a serpentine pulley. Looking up the 93+ alternators, at least for the trucks, all of the ones I saw were for a serpentine system with a belt tensioner.

You can swap pulleys, Just reuse your old one.

 

[ledzilla]

I'm not so keen on that unless the pulleys have a close diameter. If the serpentine pulley originally installed has a significantly smaller diameter, the v-belt pulley will cause a large reduction in alternator RPMs which means a lower output. While driving, not a big deal, but it could be an issue when idling. Between it being rigged up for a plow and my intention to install additional lighting and a better sound system than the bargain basement radio that was installed, I don't want to risk the battery draining while idling.

Given the prices of alternators all around, though, the Tuff Stuff 150A alternator with a v-belt pulley already installed seems to be a great option to me. I think that's still cheaper than a stock replacement alternator for either my Expedition or my Marauder.

 

[ledzilla]

Over the weekend I was able to get the new alternator installed. I also took advantage of this as an opportunity to also upgrade the battery cables to 2ga. I had this four-post 350A block sitting around, too, so I mounted it and ran the cables to it.

When I bought my Bronco, it was having issues with the solenoid arc welding the circuit closed. I'd have to either pop the hood and whack the solenoid or smack the fender in order to get the solenoid to release. I found the most likely cause was an insuffient circuit ground. As it was, I noticed a battery cable with a broken post terminal tucked away, and an excessively long cable attached the the negative post mounted to the top of the engine (not sure if it was to the head or manifold, though). With all the new cables installed, I installed a new negative battery cable in the stock location and removed both of the other cables. Looks like the cable with the broken terminal was 2ga and the overly long replacement was only 4ga. With everything in place the solenoid didn't weld closed and it seemed like the engine fired up more easily.

Some time soon, though, going to get back in there and replace the cable from the solenoid to the starter. I was getting too tired and it was getting too dark by time I got that far. At least for now I'm going to keep an eye on the solenoid, and hope that my grounding issue has completely resolved.

I also ended up replacing the nut that holds the negative cable on, and the nut that secures the alternator in place for belt tension. I have a pack of new yellow zinc-plated steel nuts on hand from another project that were the right size. The existing nuts were badly corroded, so it seemed like a good idea. The bolts for the alternator also got some attention from the wire wheel on my bench grinder. The tension bolt had some severely dirty threads preventing smooth installation of the new nut, and the long bracket bolt had a lot of rust all along it. Gave it it thorough coating with anti-seize before sliding back into place. You can see it in the photo of the alternator.

Anyway, hoping it won't take me too long to get back in there for the cable to the starter. With any luck I'll also have time to do a tune-up (plugs, wires, coil, cap, rotor), install new valve cover gaskets, reroute the the cruise control servo vacuum line from the PCV port to the manifold port, and get a PCV valve actually installed (no PCV valve or vacuum line even installed right now).

Too bad I don't have new valve covers on hand to install with that. A previous owner installed some Edelbrock valve covers and the baffles don't leave enough room to fit a funnel into the filler hole. It makes it very difficult to fill oil cleanly.