1992 ford bronco ignition problems

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rogmit

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I went out to start my truck a week ago and it started and died and wouldn't restart. I had some old parts laying around so I started changing items related to the ignition. I first replaced the ignition module because I had replaced the steering column awhile back.But, it still wouldn't start, then I replaced the ignition module, same thing, then I tried the coil because there was no spark, still no spark,changed the cap and rotor, still no fire. I checked all the fuses and they were all good. I checked the map sensor and it was fine. I checked the fusible link at starter and it is not broken. I checked the fuel pump it is OK. So, I'm lost at what to look as what next to check. I could use some help if any body has any ideas what could be the problem. Oh, I also put truck in neutral safety switch and that wasn't the problem.Help!! I missed my truck, I'm driving my wife's minivan.

 

miesk5

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yo R,

Take time to read this and then test all parts;

No Start, but Cranks and or Misfire, etc.; Thick Film Ignition (TFI) Testing, Overview & Diagrams; "...This article applies to both the Gray colored Ignition Control Module and the Black colored Ignition Control Module. The Gray colored Ignition Control Module is called the Push Start Module and the Black colored Ignition Control Module is called the Computer Controlled Dwell Module.'

READ MORE @

http://easyautodiagnostics.com/ford_ignition_module/distributor_mounted_module_1.php

Spark Tester, DIY; W/ an old but good spark plug; cut off the L-shaped tip,& clean up the center electrode and surrounding metal with a bit of sandpaper. Drill a small hole in the thickest part of the metal (where the wrench goes on). Use a metal ***** to attach a length of wire, a couple of feet, to the body of the spark plug. To the other end of the wire, solder or otherwise attach a big alligator clip. Since the tip is cut off, the spark will have to be stronger to jump the wider gap. It is harder for a spark to form in a compressed cylinder so it more accurately represents the spark performance under running conditions. With the engine off, remove the spark plug wire you wish to test from the spark plug. Attach the spark tester to the plug wire and connect the alligator clip to a good ground. Remember that the coil output can give you a very nasty shock, so make sure to wear thick gloves or use a rag to hold the tester, and not to touch the body of the car when the system is energized. Hold the tester away from the car body and use your remote starter switch or have an assistant start the car (or simply turn it over). You should get a healthy bluish white spark from the center post to the side of the spark tester. COIL; If your coil is already off the Bronco, you can bench test your coil. To set up the test, remove one spark plug wire from its plug, then remove the spark plug using a spark plug socket. Next put the spark plug back into the spark plug wire. Be careful not to let anything drop into the empty spark plug hole. Holding the plug wire with insulated pliers, find a spot on the engine that is a good and easily accessible grounding point. Pretty much any exposed metal, including the engine itself, will do. Holding the spark plug wire with your pliers, touch the threaded portion of the spark plug to the grounding point. Have somebody crank the engine with the key, and look for a bright blue spark to jump across the spark plug gap. If you see a nice, bright spark (clearly visible in daylight) your coil is doing its job.

Source: by miesk5

more troubleshooting LINKs in my site @ http://www.broncolinks.com/index.php?index=230

also, No Start Troubleshooting; "...First thing to check is wiring. Between the large posts of your starter relay should be a smaller post with a wire attached. This is the wire from your ignition switch through the Park/Neutral Safety Switch (NSS)/Manual Lever Position Sensor (MLPS), Or clutch safety switch on a manual trans, or NSS/MLPS with an AOD/E4OD, to the starter relay and the on to the starter solenoid (if equipped) and starter. Check this wire for cracks, open insulation, or anything that could possibly cause an open circuit.

Lastly, check your ignition switch (again, at the base of the column). Manually push the switch back and forth through the different positions. Push it all the way forward (or down) and see if it will engage the starter. If it does, then your ignition rod is probably bent, which can be remedied quite easily. & If it's an auto, try starting in neutral or while pulling up on the lever while it's in park. If that works, look to the Park/NSS/MLPS. If it's a stick, check the clutch switch. You could try jumping from hot to the small terminal on the starter relay to test it's operation. Sometimes new ones are bad out of the box. If it won't turn over when jumped to the small terminal, you'll know that it's a starter relay issue (Bad part, bad ground or a bad starter. Check to see if da relay is tight to inner fender with no corrosion because the relay's body is ground path via inner fender). If it does turns over jumped to the small terminal, then you'll be looking for something in the small circuit that includes the ignition switch & the park/neutral safety switch (NSS/MLPS) Or clutch safety switch. There should be 12v running from the ignition switch, thru the NSS/MLPS, to the small terminal on the starter relay. Disconnect the small wire to the starter relay (So it doesn't start by surprise, I'd pull the coil wire too). With someone holding the key in the start position, you should be able to read 12v between any point on that small circuit & ground. When you find where you lose 12v, then you'll know where the issue is..."; MIESK5 EDIT; changed a few terms; Also, see Starter (@) Relay Jumping Image in 92-96 @ http://www.broncolinks.com/gallery_images/StarterRelayJumpinin92-96.JPG - Sewiw shows a remote start switch's Jumpers;

you can use a small jumper;

MIESK5 NOTE; from Ford EVTM; The Control Module (PCM) runs the pump for one second when it receives an ignition- on signal. It also runs the pump as long as it receives a PIP signal from the Hall-effect devices, it continues pump operation even after the key is released from START. If the PIP signals fall below 120RPM, the control module cuts off the signal to the fuel pump relay.

The pump will also run when YOU Connect Diagnostic Link Connector (DLC) terminal A to any ground (like terminal E) to force the fuel pump on when the key is in RUN.

Testing & Diagram at the Diagnostic Link Connector (DLC) in 84-95; dlc-eeciv.jpg

DLC IS LOCATED located under DRIVER SIDE hood hinge under EEC TEST cover.

the Control module signals the pump when it receives a CRANK signal, and when the Control module gets PIP signals that the engine is running. the pump does not run if the PIP indicates the engine is not running even with ignition ON {except for that first one second}. Hopefully it could be a dead cell in da battery.

TRY SELF TEST FOR CODES AS SHOWN BY MY PAL BRONCOJOE @ http://broncozone.com/topic/14269-code-reader/

Do KOEO for now

Post Codes found here.

 
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rogmit

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yo R,

Take time to read this and then test all parts;

No Start, but Cranks and or Misfire, etc.; Thick Film Ignition (TFI) Testing, Overview & Diagrams; "...This article applies to both the Gray colored Ignition Control Module and the Black colored Ignition Control Module. The Gray colored Ignition Control Module is called the Push Start Module and the Black colored Ignition Control Module is called the Computer Controlled Dwell Module.'

READ MORE @

http://easyautodiagnostics.com/ford_ignition_module/distributor_mounted_module_1.php

Spark Tester, DIY; W/ an old but good spark plug; cut off the L-shaped tip,& clean up the center electrode and surrounding metal with a bit of sandpaper. Drill a small hole in the thickest part of the metal (where the wrench goes on). Use a metal ***** to attach a length of wire, a couple of feet, to the body of the spark plug. To the other end of the wire, solder or otherwise attach a big alligator clip. Since the tip is cut off, the spark will have to be stronger to jump the wider gap. It is harder for a spark to form in a compressed cylinder so it more accurately represents the spark performance under running conditions. With the engine off, remove the spark plug wire you wish to test from the spark plug. Attach the spark tester to the plug wire and connect the alligator clip to a good ground. Remember that the coil output can give you a very nasty shock, so make sure to wear thick gloves or use a rag to hold the tester, and not to touch the body of the car when the system is energized. Hold the tester away from the car body and use your remote starter switch or have an assistant start the car (or simply turn it over). You should get a healthy bluish white spark from the center post to the side of the spark tester. COIL; If your coil is already off the Bronco, you can bench test your coil. To set up the test, remove one spark plug wire from its plug, then remove the spark plug using a spark plug socket. Next put the spark plug back into the spark plug wire. Be careful not to let anything drop into the empty spark plug hole. Holding the plug wire with insulated pliers, find a spot on the engine that is a good and easily accessible grounding point. Pretty much any exposed metal, including the engine itself, will do. Holding the spark plug wire with your pliers, touch the threaded portion of the spark plug to the grounding point. Have somebody crank the engine with the key, and look for a bright blue spark to jump across the spark plug gap. If you see a nice, bright spark (clearly visible in daylight) your coil is doing its job.

Source: by miesk5

more troubleshooting LINKs in my site @ http://www.broncolinks.com/index.php?index=230

also, No Start Troubleshooting; "...First thing to check is wiring. Between the large posts of your starter relay should be a smaller post with a wire attached. This is the wire from your ignition switch through the Park/Neutral Safety Switch (NSS)/Manual Lever Position Sensor (MLPS), Or clutch safety switch on a manual trans, or NSS/MLPS with an AOD/E4OD, to the starter relay and the on to the starter solenoid (if equipped) and starter. Check this wire for cracks, open insulation, or anything that could possibly cause an open circuit.

Lastly, check your ignition switch (again, at the base of the column). Manually push the switch back and forth through the different positions. Push it all the way forward (or down) and see if it will engage the starter. If it does, then your ignition rod is probably bent, which can be remedied quite easily. & If it's an auto, try starting in neutral or while pulling up on the lever while it's in park. If that works, look to the Park/NSS/MLPS. If it's a stick, check the clutch switch. You could try jumping from hot to the small terminal on the starter relay to test it's operation. Sometimes new ones are bad out of the box. If it won't turn over when jumped to the small terminal, you'll know that it's a starter relay issue (Bad part, bad ground or a bad starter. Check to see if da relay is tight to inner fender with no corrosion because the relay's body is ground path via inner fender). If it does turns over jumped to the small terminal, then you'll be looking for something in the small circuit that includes the ignition switch & the park/neutral safety switch (NSS/MLPS) Or clutch safety switch. There should be 12v running from the ignition switch, thru the NSS/MLPS, to the small terminal on the starter relay. Disconnect the small wire to the starter relay (So it doesn't start by surprise, I'd pull the coil wire too). With someone holding the key in the start position, you should be able to read 12v between any point on that small circuit & ground. When you find where you lose 12v, then you'll know where the issue is..."; MIESK5 EDIT; changed a few terms; Also, see Starter (@) Relay Jumping Image in 92-96 @ http://www.broncolinks.com/gallery_images/StarterRelayJumpinin92-96.JPG - Sewiw shows a remote start switch's Jumpers;

you can use a small jumper;

MIESK5 NOTE; from Ford EVTM; The Control Module (PCM) runs the pump for one second when it receives an ignition- on signal. It also runs the pump as long as it receives a PIP signal from the Hall-effect devices, it continues pump operation even after the key is released from START. If the PIP signals fall below 120RPM, the control module cuts off the signal to the fuel pump relay.

The pump will also run when YOU Connect Diagnostic Link Connector (DLC) terminal A to any ground (like terminal E) to force the fuel pump on when the key is in RUN.

Testing & Diagram at the Diagnostic Link Connector (DLC) in 84-95; dlc-eeciv.jpg

DLC IS LOCATED located under DRIVER SIDE hood hinge under EEC TEST cover.

the Control module signals the pump when it receives a CRANK signal, and when the Control module gets PIP signals that the engine is running. the pump does not run if the PIP indicates the engine is not running even with ignition ON {except for that first one second}. Hopefully it could be a dead cell in da battery.

TRY SELF TEST FOR CODES AS SHOWN BY MY PAL BRONCOJOE @ http://broncozone.com/topic/14269-code-reader/

Do KOEO for now

Post Codes found here.
 
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rogmit

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miesk5: Does it make any difference if the truck cranks but won't start?

 

miesk5

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miesk5: Does it make any difference if the truck cranks but won't start?

yo R,

Yes,

Use the No Start, but Cranks and or Misfire, etc.; Thick Film Ignition (TFI) Testing, Overview & Diagrams; "...This article applies to both the Gray colored Ignition Control Module and the Black colored Ignition Control Module. The Gray colored Ignition Control Module is called the Push Start Module and the Black colored Ignition Control Module is called the Computer Controlled Dwell Module.

http://easyautodiagnostics.com/ford_ignition_module/distributor_mounted_module_1.php

I inserted the other stuff; jumping starter relay terminals etc. in case I mis-read the issues and you had a No Crank situation.

 
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rogmit

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yo R,

Yes,

Use the No Start, but Cranks and or Misfire, etc.; Thick Film Ignition (TFI) Testing, Overview & Diagrams; "...This article applies to both the Gray colored Ignition Control Module and the Black colored Ignition Control Module. The Gray colored Ignition Control Module is called the Push Start Module and the Black colored Ignition Control Module is called the Computer Controlled Dwell Module.

http://easyautodiagnostics.com/ford_ignition_module/distributor_mounted_module_1.php

I inserted the other stuff; jumping starter relay terminals etc. in case I mis-read the issues and you had a No Crank situation.
 
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rogmit

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miesk5-rogmit here. I've ran all the tests except the PIP test. The coil is energized and has 12v when ignition is turned on and the control module seems to be ok also, the wires are new at starter and are in tact. Now, I know the engine will crank in neutral but it shouldn't crank in every gear. So, I know that is a problem. But, I don't know what that problem is.Also, I need to check the small wire on the solenoid on the firewall, but I can't remember the name of it at this time because this problem is frying my brain. The other wires going to battery and starter that are coming off this solenoid are getting voltage. But, what puzzles me when this problem first occurred, the truck started right up and ran a few minutes and just died. I'm freaking lost and I don't normally take my truck anywhere because I don't trust any of these SOB'S because I've been screwed over before and I'm not going to pay anybody $90-140 an hour to fix this. Your articles were helpful but still a no start problem even though it cranks. So, if you have any other ideas I'd appreciate the help.

 

miesk5

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miesk5-rogmit here. I've ran all the tests except the PIP test. The coil is energized and has 12v when ignition is turned on and the control module seems to be ok also, the wires are new at starter and are in tact. Now, I know the engine will crank in neutral but it shouldn't crank in every gear. So, I know that is a problem. But, I don't know what that problem is.Also, I need to check the small wire on the solenoid on the firewall, but I can't remember the name of it at this time because this problem is frying my brain. The other wires going to battery and starter that are coming off this solenoid are getting voltage. But, what puzzles me when this problem first occurred, the truck started right up and ran a few minutes and just died. I'm freaking lost and I don't normally take my truck anywhere because I don't trust any of these SOB'S because I've been screwed over before and I'm not going to pay anybody $90-140 an hour to fix this. Your articles were helpful but still a no start problem even though it cranks. So, if you have any other ideas I'd appreciate the help.

yo R,

Do you get spark from coil as shown in the easydiagnostics test?

No Start Troubleshooting & Coil Test in a 92; Starter Cranks Engine, but Engine Doesn't Start; see diagrams 4 & 5. Possible Causes: No voltage at TFI Module or Distributor; Bad TFI Module

Source: by Seabronc (Rosie, Fred W) at Ford Bronco Zone Forums http://broncozone.com/topic/21145-89-bronco-help/

PIP,

A better test is to check the fuel pump relay when cranking the engine over. Not the 2 second run after the key is turned on, but while cranking the engine. If the fuel pump relay kicks on when cranking (if you hear the pump whine, then relay is working), the TFI & Hall Effect (Profile Ignition Pick-up (PIP) Signal, Stator, RPM) are good..."

re your; "I know the engine will crank in neutral but it shouldn't crank in every gear."

Ia eng crankinging in 1st gear?

If so, neutral safety switch has to be adjusted/tested; it is also called the Manual Lever Position/Transmission Range (MLPS/TR) Sensor

Testing w/Connector Pin-Out Diagram

1995-bronco-mlps-component-testing.jpg

Source: by SeattleFSB (Seattle FSB)

more LINKs in my site @ http://www.broncolinks.com/index.php?index=846

" don't know what that problem is.Also, I need to check the small wire on the solenoid on the firewall, but I can't remember the name of it at this time because this problem is frying my brain. The other wires going to battery and starter that are coming off this solenoid are getting voltage."

ok, that is the starter relay

 
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rogmit

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miesk5: R here. It is not not distributor either. I put the old distributor in it that I took out because I had put a new sensor in it before I bought my MSD distributor and I still have no spark. Now there was a test I ran with the small red wire on the starter relay, it said to turn ignition on and crank engine and using a test light that you should have a strong light and I got nothing. could that be the culprit and where does the other end of the wire connect to because it looks like it goes into a big wire loom.

 
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miesk5

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yo R,

re your, " small red wire on the starter relay, "

Sine the starter is Cranking the Engine over, that R/LB wire on the relay isn't causing the no start you have.

Do the PIP test when you can.

Same for testing for spark.

That is the R/LB wire from Ignition Switch (@ base of steering column)

via the clutch switch or MLPS and should only be hot with the key in START and either the clutch fully depressed, OR the auto shifter in P or N

Wiring Diagram, From Battery through MLPS (TR) in a 95 (SAME AS YOUR 92)

1995-bronco-202-starting-system.jpg

Source: by Seattle FSB

Wiring Diagram in a 95; from Ignition Switch through Clutch Pedal Position (CPP) Switch and CPP Jumper to Connector C103F (LH side of engine compartment, top of wheel well, Terminal: 16 Color: BK)

1995-bronco-201-starting-system.jpg

Source: by Seattle FSB (SeattleFSB)

Wiring Info & Starting @ Relay for PMGR (Permanent Magnet Gear Reduction) in 92-96

Source: by BLADE262US at Ford Bronco Zone Forums http://broncozone.com/topic/7446-94-bronco-starter-replacement/

 
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Rons beast

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Hey Rogmit,

Easy test here:

Have 12 volts at the + terminal of the coil with the ignition turned on, or at the "run' position. yes or no?

No? you need to trace that circuit and find where you lost power from the ignition switch to the coil.

yes? ok, that circuit is good to that point.

next try this:

Connect a test light between the + and the - terminals of your ignition coil. Have someone crank the engine.

If it does not flash it isn't getting a firing signal and the stator or pickup in the dist. is bad or the ign. module is bad.

If the light flashes your distributor internals are ok and your module is ok.

Pull the coil wire to the dist. off at the dist cap. hold the end close to ground. Crank the engine. Got spark? yes or no?

No...replace the coil.

Yes.. replace the wire back on to the dist. cap, and check for spark at the plug end of the wires. You should be getting spark from the coil through the dist. cap and to the plugs

Spark at the wires Yes or no

yes...you don't have an ignition problem .

no...pull off the dist cap, check that the dist. is in fact turning when the engine is cranking, check for broken rotor. There is some reason the spark is not getting to the plugs.

Let us know the result of these simple tests.

Good Luck

.

 
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rogmit

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Hey Bronco Commander: I did the tests and still no spark. So, I replaced the distributor with one that was running in the truck and no spark, so I had another control module laying around in my parts box that looked like it was new but still no spark, I disconnected alarm system which I thought might be the cause but it is still getting 12v at coil wire and comes on when the key is turned on and cranks but no spark. I'm jumping the truck at this point because the battery is dead. I hate the idea of paying someone $90.00 an hour to troubleshoot the wiring. Any other ideas?

 

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Hey Rog,

Fully charge the battery before doing the tests. It takes .30volts to "turn on" a transistor. If the battery is too week all the voltage will be used to crank the engine, and there will not be enough for the electronics to work properly. I have encountered vehicles that would not start with a battery charger or a jump from another vehicle. Replaced the battery with a good one and fired right up.

Did you do the test with the light betweeen the + and - terminals of the coil? Did you get a flashing light while cranking?

If you had a flashing light, and still no spark, you need a new coil.

Good Luck

 
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Hey Bronco Commander: Charged battery to full fresh charge and had jumper cables and still no spark,a friend of mine said he thought it might be the computer because he smelled something like wires got hot but we couldn't find any melted wires. Does it sound like the computer to you?

 

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Hey Rog,

You are jumping all over the place. The way to diagnose a problem is to take a path and follow it.

( Did you do the test with the light between the + and - terminals of the coil? Did you get a flashing light while cranking?

If you had a flashing light, and still no spark, you need a new coil.

 
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rogmit

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Bronco Commander: yes, I did the coil test and I got nothing and the coil is brand new and so is the coil wire. So,what is the next test?

 

Rons beast

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Hey Rog,

Did you get no light to indicate that there is 12 volts at the + side of the coil with the key in the RUN position?

check the pic to be sure you are testing the correct things.

The testlight is connected to a good ground, NOT THE COIL, for this test. The probe is touching the wire connected to the + side of the coil. The wire should be red with a green stripe.

If you have a light in that test you have power to the coil. If not you need to diagnose the problem with that wire and circuit.

connect the clip end of the test light to the - side of the coil, and have someone crank the engine.

If the light flashes, the distributor is sending a "fire" signal to the coil.

If NOT there is an issue with the distributor, the module or the related wiring.

Let me know if you have a light indicating 12 volts to the + side of the coil. and ...if so when connected as shown in the second pic , did the light flash when the engine was cranked?

Coil and dist test 001.jpg

Coil and dist test 003.jpg

 
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rogmit

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Bronco Commander: When I turn the key on on the positive coil, I do get 12 volts but when I crank the engine over the light just stays solid, it doesn't flash. So, what's next?

 

Rons beast

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ROG,

Lets do something crazy first and remove the distributor cap and the heavy coil wire from the distributor cap to the coil. remove it at the coil. Crank the engine and have someone watch and make sure that the rotor in the distributor is actually spinning!

That done, if it is indeed spinning....

There are 2 tests here....

Test #1......First you check for voltage at the + terminal with the test light probe, (the pointy end) in the + terminal of the coil and the aligater clip on a known good ground. That test, (according to you), was positive, in that you had the light glowing when the key was in the run position.

That tells us that there is voltage to the coil with the key on. With voltage there it has the ability to make spark. That is IF there is also a signal from the distributor through the ignition module.

To check if that is happening we go to.....

Test #2 the test light probe is still in the + terminal of the coil, BUT the aligator clip is moved to the - terminal of the coil. The engine is then cranked, while watching the test light. If the distributer is sending a "fire" signal ( providing the - side of the coil with a ground, then removing that ground) the test light will not stay on steady, but it will flash.

there are 3 possible results:

1--If in that test the light stayed on there is no removal of the ground and the coil cannot colapse the magnetic field it creates to make a high voltage spark. Check for the tan/yellow negative wire on the coil to see if it is rubbing somewhere to ground. That leed goes to the ignition control module. Dillegently check that wire.

2--The test light will not light at all The coil is NOT recieving a signal to fire and is not recieving a ground to build voltage for a spark...Same as #1 above check the tan/yellow wire to see if it is broken at all.

3-- the test light flashes and still no spark...The coil is not building a magnetic field and is faulty.

If your test results are either 1 or 2 above and you have checked the wire from the ignition module to the coil - terminal, and found no faults, broken wire, rubbing to ground, etc. then you need additional deeper diagnostics of the distributor and module primary systems.

 
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