1969 Bronco

[coolio1]

I just purchased a very clean 1969 with a 351W 3 speed on the floor. I love the rig but the brakes are just horrible. I have a brake booster but I rather upgarde to discs on the front. Any ideas as to how har this will be? How much? I can do the labor mysefl.

Thanks,

 

[Broncobill78]

Not very hard at all. There are a few ways to go about doing this, there are kits sold by places like Stainless Steel Brakes but they're on the pricey side, you can swap in some Chevy pieces or you can go with an all-ford conversion. Now I've never *personally* gone with either of the first two options but from what I hear they both work well when finished, it just comes down to personal preferance. What I did was to use a parts truck (first one was a 76' F150 & the second was a 79' Bronco) because this way you have everything right there and there were a lot of parts that were usefull for other projects. You'll want the knuckles & everything outboard of them, the master cylinder, vacuum booster & proportioning valve. How much it'll cost will depend on which route you take & what parts you want to buy new. I paid $250 & $400 respectively for the parts trucks and was content to turn the rotors & re-used the calipers, master cylinder & proportioning valve. I figured it was worth it to try and I could always replace anything that failed after the swap was complete, lucked out both times and everything worked fine. It will obviously be more expensive if you go with new rotors & calipers & a new proportioning valve for these trucks runs about $90-$100 (or at least they did the last time I had to replace one) and I think a rebuilt master cyl runs about $50.

You're not going to have a lot of clearance for the vacuum booster with that 351 in there. I swapped a 351 into a friends truck *after* we'd done the disk upgrade and he had a set of the tall aluminum Ford Motorsports valve covers that didn't even come close to fitting in under the booster. We replaced that side with a stock cover & had the Motorsports one notched & TIG'd back together.

 

[Bully Bob]

Don't mean to be a "spoil-sport"..., but.., I've rebuilt the brakes on about 16 trail rigs.., some with power, some without.

They all would throw you thru the windshield....... :wacko: :^o

The key..., they have to be done right. The lines have to be clean & free of internal goo.., M/C, wheel cyl's., shoes, booster, drums all have to be in perfect work'n order.

Honestly.., Ford did not make these rigs NOT to stop...! Having said that.., none of the rigs I've bought had the brakes set-up correctly.

It's "cheap" to do comparatively...as your labor is free. :-B

Also; ...you could just have a bad, or leaking booster...that would req. a lead foot on the brake pedal..! B)

I see..... you don't have the booster on yet...? If you "clean-up" the brake system...you may not even need the booster.

 

[coolio1]

Not very hard at all. There are a few ways to go about doing this, there are kits sold by places like Stainless Steel Brakes but they're on the pricey side, you can swap in some Chevy pieces or you can go with an all-ford conversion. Now I've never *personally* gone with either of the first two options but from what I hear they both work well when finished, it just comes down to personal preferance. What I did was to use a parts truck (first one was a 76' F150 & the second was a 79' Bronco) because this way you have everything right there and there were a lot of parts that were usefull for other projects. You'll want the knuckles & everything outboard of them, the master cylinder, vacuum booster & proportioning valve. How much it'll cost will depend on which route you take & what parts you want to buy new. I paid $250 & $400 respectively for the parts trucks and was content to turn the rotors & re-used the calipers, master cylinder & proportioning valve. I figured it was worth it to try and I could always replace anything that failed after the swap was complete, lucked out both times and everything worked fine. It will obviously be more expensive if you go with new rotors & calipers & a new proportioning valve for these trucks runs about $90-$100 (or at least they did the last time I had to replace one) and I think a rebuilt master cyl runs about $50.
You're not going to have a lot of clearance for the vacuum booster with that 351 in there. I swapped a 351 into a friends truck *after* we'd done the disk upgrade and he had a set of the tall aluminum Ford Motorsports valve covers that didn't even come close to fitting in under the booster. We replaced that side with a stock cover & had the Motorsports one notched & TIG'd back together.

Thank you. Your advice is very helpful. I will let you all know how it goes.

 

[Broncobill78]

Don't mean to be a "spoil-sport"..., but.., I've rebuilt the brakes on about 16 trail rigs.., some with power, some without.They all would throw you thru the windshield....... :wacko: :^o

The key..., they have to be done right. The lines have to be clean & free of internal goo.., M/C, wheel cyl's., shoes, booster, drums all have to be in perfect work'n order.

Honestly.., Ford did not make these rigs NOT to stop...! Having said that.., none of the rigs I've bought had the brakes set-up correctly.

It's "cheap" to do comparatively...as your labor is free. :-B

Also; ...you could just have a bad, or leaking booster...that would req. a lead foot on the brake pedal..! B)

I see..... you don't have the booster on yet...? If you "clean-up" the brake system...you may not even need the booster.

I can agree with that to a point, but I have to say that I think converting to *front* disks has a lot of merit. Drums are terrible when they're wet and for a trail rig that sees a lot of mud they can be a downright pain in the a$$. When I drove my 73' on the road in the rain I could notice a difference in how poorly it stopped, you'd have to ride the brakes to keep them warmed & dry. As for *rear* disks, I look at that as a questionable upgrade at best. The fronts do 70% of the work so the time, $$$ and hassle of changing the rears isn't worth it most of the time. If you do a lot of towing it might be worth it but I think a lot of times it's just for fun or for that WOW-factor. If you could swap rears as cheaply & easily as fronts it would be a different story, but between the brake fade on long downhill trails and the drop-off when they're wet or muddy and I really do think doing the fronts is worthwhile. The fact that you can do it pretty cheaply using Ford parts doesn't hurt either.

 

[Bully Bob]

Hay bill,

".......brake fade on long downhill trails and the drop-off when they're wet or muddy..."

I installed new brakes on my rig in '91 ....there's still 3/4 meat left on the shoes....

Why would one use brakes on a (even steep) down hill trail.....I have to add throttle...even in 2nd gear...? :huh:

Nothing wrong with installing discs if time & $$ allow... but, deep water & mega mud will create more problems/expenses than just brakes...save a waterproofed rig. /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

 

[Crude dude]

You can also install an 84' Dodge Power Wagon master cylinder in an early bronco very easily. You need to dill the holes that mount it to the firewall to 3/8 and thats it. I did this to mine with disc brakes on the front and a proportioning valve inline to the rear. Major upgrade over stock. I dont think power brakes is the way to go if you have a really good manual setup, unless you have fuel injection that is.

 

[S_bolt19]

The more expensive kit to buy is the front disc kit. The complete rear kit from BC is almost $150 cheaper than the front kit is from WH. That being said, if you decide to go one way or the other (disc or staying stock) do the fronts first. As said, more stopping power comes from the front than the rear. On the note of adding rear discs, it is an even greater improvement of stopping power over stock. I will put that arguement up any day. I know Bully Bob likes his drums, but I have used almost every proper (i.e. drum/drum, disc/drum, disc/disc, vacuum boosted and hydroboosted) combo of braking and the best by a very long shot is hydroboosted disc/disc. Just remember that in order to have hydroboost, you must have power steering. That is the only draw back for the HB set ups. As for going power over manual (and in my case HB) I will say that power is by far better than manual. Even if the engine dies, I still have "power brakes" for the first few pumps after the engine dies. After that, it resorts back to regular manual brakes. Vacuum assisted brakes don't and therefore, in my opinion, are a more suspect braking system than the HB.

 

[Bully Bob]

Hi S bolt.....

I'm sure you know I have nothing against discs & power.....My P/U has pwr/disc F & R ....work great...! /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

With the anti-skid & all..., I don't really notice any diff. between the Br. & the truck.

My point was... if it works ...don't mess with it..!

i.e. if you can't make'm work..., then go to plan "B"

I've seen rigs with too much brake, if you will.. & that can get you into trouble as well. :huh:

 

[fbnwest]

Yes if it works don't fix it!!!!

Unless of course you are an officer....

Military flashbacks sorry... couldn't resist.

 

[Broncobill78]

Hay bill,".......brake fade on long downhill trails and the drop-off when they're wet or muddy..."

I installed new brakes on my rig in '91 ....there's still 3/4 meat left on the shoes....

Why would one use brakes on a (even steep) down hill trail.....I have to add throttle...even in 2nd gear...? :huh:

Nothing wrong with installing discs if time & $$ allow... but, deep water & mega mud will create more problems/expenses than just brakes...save a waterproofed rig. /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

Ok, that's cool & I'm in touch with what you're saying. Some guys like what they like. I'm not a big personal fan of the ole' 3-on-the-tree but some guys just LOVE that $hit, and that's cool beans w/me. And again I have to *agree* with you that downshifting can make a HUGE difference in downhill performance. But I just can't get with the idea that front drums are in ANY way superior or even equal to disks. Maybe the meat is left on the drums because they just aren't as effective, they aren't abrading as much material because they're less effective ? It's cool if you like them and I won't argue that they get the job done but there is just no way that wet drums come even *close* to stopping like wet disks do and if you're operating in an thick-mud environment you WILL wear the drums much more than the disks. That's no opinion, it's just gravity & physics. Now I will redily admit that I've never invested much effort into waterproofing a set of front drums, so maybe I don't understand just how effective it can be. All I've ever done is swap to disks because it just flat-out wasn't that difficult, expensive or involved. Show me a good waterproofed drum front-end and I'll look at it and tell ya what I think, but truth be told I just don't understand why you couldn't spend the same time & effort converting to disks. But honestly, I DO understand that some guys like their rigs setup one way as opposed to another and they're willing to make the effort & accept the trade-off's.

 

[S_bolt19]

Hi S bolt.....I'm sure you know I have nothing against discs & power.....My P/U has pwr/disc F & R ....work great...! /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

With the anti-skid & all..., I don't really notice any diff. between the Br. & the truck.

My point was... if it works ...don't mess with it..!

i.e. if you can't make'm work..., then go to plan "B"

I've seen rigs with too much brake, if you will.. & that can get you into trouble as well. :huh:

Oh, no, I ain't pokin fun at you or even trying to pick a fight. I just know you like the originals on yours. Thats all I was implying. /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

As for me, I love my H-boost disc/disc set up and you couldn't pay me to go back. They are better responding than my wife's 03 Dodge Durango. If I drive my EB all day and then go get in her Durango, it feels like I have to stand on her brakes to come close to the stopping power that is in my Bronc. I should also mention that her Durango is vacuum assisted.

 

[Broncobill78]

Whoops. Sorry. Way too late & too many to be saying that. disregard this entire post.

 

[Bully Bob]

Bill said...,

"I just can't get with the idea that front drums are in ANY way superior or even equal to disks. Maybe the meat is left on the drums because they just aren't as effective, they aren't abrading as much material because they're less effective ? It's cool if you like them and I won't argue that they get the job done but there is just no way that wet drums come even *close* to stopping like wet disks do and if you're operating in an thick-mud environment you WILL wear the drums much more than the disks."

Coolio just wanted to get his brakes work'n...and/or option info. (that was my take on his post) He's prob. laugh'n at all this, as am I :lol: Once again these answers take on a life of their own.... ^_^ /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

We're not talk'n NASCAR, or 24 hr. LEMANS here...... My shoes don't ware down 'cause I rarely use brakes, simply that. Throttle on--throttle off --& gears. Maybe that's why no one can stay with me here in this desert...

Isn't this fun...? /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> (Of course, street runn'n is a diff. story)

 

[Broncobill78]

He's prob. laugh'n at all this, as am I :lol: Once again these answers take on a life of their own.... ^_^ /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

Yup, gotta agree, I'm sure MORE than a few folks are laughing at us /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> . Sometimes our own silly $hit has a way of getting away from us doesn't it ? Actually that's fine in my book as long as we all do it with a smile & a laugh and everyone understands and *respects* the other guy. Plenty of other forums where this sort of thing becomes personal and nasty. Police your own comments & respect everyone's opinion. We all love different versions of the same thing & everyone's entitled to build the truck he likes without anyone else telling him how it SHOULD be done. Differences of opinion are not only fine but they often bring to light ideas that someone may not have even considered. As long as everyone's respectfull of the other guy it's all cool in my book.