Help

[broncogurl86]

Ok so here goes nothing, I have a 86 Fullsize bronco that when i got it ran wonderful couldnt find a problem with it except some minor rust dmage ya know the typical ford trait had it for bout 10 days drove nice and everthing that day got out do somethings went to get back into it and start it and would not start. Originally thought that maybe the sending usit went since was told that there was a problem with that, so i replaced the sending unit and while i was at it i replaced the old fuel tank (majorly rusted out). got in it to start it and it would then start but as soon as you touched the gas would die out. so next i replaced the high pressure fuel pump on the frame rail still did the same thing at the same time changed the inline fuel filter and still did the same thing would start right up and then as soon as you touch the gas would die right out on you. was then told to try the tp sensor so i went and got one of them changed it still same thing, then told to change the ignition module so i did, that was able to test that and that was bad but not my main problem. I have also changed the fuel pressure regulator so i have changed pretty much the entire fuel system from front to back and still am having the same problem with one little change it now will not start at all thought that maybe starter went bad but had that tested and that is not the case solenoid went badso had that replaced and i still get nothing when i turn the key except you can hear the FP prime and the radio will come on other than that nothing. i can cross the starter solenoid to get it started but still dies so i am at a loss as to what might be the problem now!!!!

86 Ford Bronco Full size, 302 FI with trottle body, 4 speed manual transmission

 

[BroncoJoe19]

I can see your problem from here!

Take a look in your second picture... you forgot to put the gas tank back in!

Sorry... just having fun on a rainy day /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

Since you can jump the solinoid and sometimes start it, a likley candidate is a faulty neutral safty switch.

I just noted that you have a manual trans, so the thought behind this post is still accurate, and the testing will be the same, but the location of the neutral safety switch will be somewhere in your clutch linkage. I *think* it is inside the cab on your clutch pedal lever.

From the Haynes manual

For the C-series, and E4OD transmissions

1. raise the vehicle and support securly on jack stands

2. locate the Park/Neutral position switch on the drivers side of the trans, and disconnect the electrical connector.

3. Locate the two R/L or W/PK and R/LB colored wire pins in the connector and check for voltage at one pin while holding the key in the START position. If no voltage is indicated at either pin, repair the harness to the ignition switch START circuit and check the starter for operation.

4. IF voltage is indicated, jumper between the pins and check for voltage at the starter relay S wire while holding the key in the START position. If voltage is now indicated, replace the switch and adjust it.

For AOD transmissions

1. raise the vehicle and support securely on jack stands

2. locate the switch on the drivers side of the trans, and disconnect the electrical connector.

3. check for voltage at one pin while holding the key in the START position. If no voltage is indecated at either pin, repait the harness to the ignition switch STart circuit and check the starter fo operation.

4. IF voltage is indicated, jumper between the pins and check for voltage at the starter relay S wire while holding the key in the START position. If voltage is now indicated, replace the switch.

Let's see if you can get her cranking with the key, and then we can work on the other issues...

Time to go get lunch...

I'll post more later.

joe

 

[BroncoJoe19]

Fuel...

If your tank was all that ******* perhaps some stuff got passed your fuel filter and some of your injectors are clogged. Now I know that a lot of people are very cautious about recommending the use of injector cleaner additives in the tank. I believe it is primarily because the cleaner may loosen crap off of the sides of an old tank, and fuel lines and get it stuck in your injectors. Well as soon as you get that new tank in :-" I believe that will allieve the fears of many, and it will be OK to put injector cleaner in your tank. Ofcourse you still have ? 12 feet? of old maybe crappy fuel lines.

IF you have a fuel pressure gauge, there are about four pages of instruction in the Haynes manual on how to test various aspects of the fuel system. Just because you have new parts... does not necessarily mean that they are working correctly. One would hope so.

Vacuum...

You may want to take a look to see if all of your vacuum hoses are connected.

When one replaces the TPS there are two hoses that go to the bottom of the throttle plate, and one that goes to the EGR Valve Position Sensor. All of them may have been removed to get better access.

You may want to take a look to see if she needs a tuneup.

Plugs cap rotor, and air filter.

IF she starts, will she idle long enough to warm up?

IF so... let her warm up, and then pull diagnostic trouble codes.

IF NOT... pull codes anyway.

 

[BroncoJoe19]

How To Pull Codes

Basically your idle, fuel injection, timing etc are all controlled by your computer. It uses sensors to find out what is going on, and actuators to make adjustments. Since thay are so interelated and interdependant, there are a number of sensors that could come into play, so rather than get a list of possiblities the best thing to do is to pull codes.

Here is a thread that I put together, that I request that you use as instructional for pulling codes.

It really is easy. WIth an '88, the only special tools you will need is a 4 inch piece of wire, and the ability to count to ten.

http://broncozone.com/forums/index.php?s=&...ost&p=74581

Then please let me know what if anything is not clear enough so that I can edit it so that everyone will understand.

Your feed back will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

joe

 

[love_my_bronco]

Ok so here goes nothing, I have a 86 Fullsize bronco that when i got it ran wonderful couldnt find a problem with it except some minor rust dmage ya know the typical ford trait had it for bout 10 days drove nice and everthing that day got out do somethings went to get back into it and start it and would not start. Originally thought that maybe the sending usit went since was told that there was a problem with that, so i replaced the sending unit and while i was at it i replaced the old fuel tank (majorly rusted out). got in it to start it and it would then start but as soon as you touched the gas would die out. so next i replaced the high pressure fuel pump on the frame rail still did the same thing at the same time changed the inline fuel filter and still did the same thing would start right up and then as soon as you touch the gas would die right out on you. was then told to try the tp sensor so i went and got one of them changed it still same thing, then told to change the ignition module so i did, that was able to test that and that was bad but not my main problem. I have also changed the fuel pressure regulator so i have changed pretty much the entire fuel system from front to back and still am having the same problem with one little change it now will not start at all thought that maybe starter went bad but had that tested and that is not the case solenoid went badso had that replaced and i still get nothing when i turn the key except you can hear the FP prime and the radio will come on other than that nothing. i can cross the starter solenoid to get it started but still dies so i am at a loss as to what might be the problem now!!!!

86 Ford Bronco Full size, 302 FI with trottle body, 4 speed manual transmission

lol wow we have the same pain job. and sam body. i have a 351 with a c6 auto though. lol nice to see another on the road like mine!

 

[love_my_bronco]

i as well have the same problem ill start it but when i apply gas it dies i let mine idle for about 3-5 min the drive seems to work till i find the issue but im starting an egine rebuild so yea. anyway you said you can get it started by bypassing the cylinoid? hmm not sure whats up there.. if i find my problem ill be sure to post it.

 

[broncogurl86]

Hey guys thanks for all the info i will check it all when i get a chance as for the comments from joe bout my gas tank :lol: well it was in but i just took it back out because i think i got a bad sending unit and the weather has been ****** so i havent had the chance to hook up the new unit and put the tank back in. Another thing that i forgot to add is that why i could get it started i tested for fuel pressure and i didnt have any and was told by a mechanic (which i dont always believe are correct) that i might have gotten a bad sending unit or the low pressure pump attached to the sending unit might be bad so i just got that yesterday so waiting for the rain to stop before i mess with that some more. as for checking for codes i havent gone that far yet although that should have been that first thing that i did. I know sometimes you just think you know that is wrong and it dont turn out the way you want it too. lol Thanks again for all the information will keep you all posted!!!!

 

[BroncoJoe19]

You know that you have a high and low pressure pumps, one on the rail, the other in the tank.

You had mentioned in your first post that you changed the sending unit, but no mention of the pump in the tank.

Did you change the sending unit becuase the dash guage was not working?

Are you changing it again for the same reason?

While it is possible that you got a bad replacement part, did you check to make sure that you had power to the sending unit?

Also did you check your ground back there?

IF either the power OR the ground was not sufficient back there, both your guage AND the pump in the tank won't work.

 

[BroncoJoe19]

This link is very informative about testing the sending unit

http://broncozone.com/forums/index.php?sho...amp;#entry29198

Next I'll locate where the grounds are.

 

[BroncoJoe19]

It seems that the most often cause is either a bad sending unit in the tank, a bad connection at the tank, or a bad ground.

Here is a list of grounds for a '92 - '96 bronc

The Haynes manual lists 10 separate grounds... A-J.

A. Starter mounting bolt

B. Right front of Engine compartment near the battery

C. Lower left front of engine

D. Right front of engine compartment on upper radiator support.

E. Left front of engine compartment Upper radiator support

F. Bottom of cowl panel

G. Rear of left fender apron

H. Behind bottom of right cowl panel

I. Left rear corner of cargo area near rear lamp assembly

J. Under center rear of vehicle on rear cross member.

 

[shift1313]

sorry you are having such a bad time. here is how i would go about the problem

pull the plugs and have a look at them. they may be extremely black by now.

To me it sounds like 1 of 3 things. A problem with your fuel injectors(possibly leaking of clogged with carbon), a coolant temperature sensor, your computer things the engine is really cold or really hot so when you touch the gas it give it too much gas or not enough, and 3 a problem with the Air metering system. Im not sure if your vehicle has a mass air flow sensor before the TB or its all calculated with a map sensor.

if you can hear your FP most likely its not a fuel pressure problem but you cant totally rule that out. you can check the plugs, unplug your coolant temp sensor and see if it will start(not sure have the ford ecu handles that, most go into a stored data loop) and check the manual for tests on the MAS.

cleaning injectors is a simple job, basically a 9v battery to open the injector and some carb cleaner spray. a new oring kit as well( a few bucks).

good luck

 

[BroncoJoe19]

Im not sure if your vehicle has a mass air flow sensor before the TB or its all calculated with a map sensor.
cleaning injectors is a simple job, basically a 9v battery to open the injector and some carb cleaner spray. a new oring kit as well( a few bucks).

Matt,

I have a MAP sensor in my 1990, so he would have MAP in his '88.

I would be very interested in seeing a tutorial on how to clean the injectors.

joe

 

[love_my_bronco]

Matt,I have a MAP sensor in my 1990, so he would have MAP in his '88.

I would be very interested in seeing a tutorial on how to clean the injectors.

joe

who's 88 did i miss something all well. on the subject at hand. even though you can hear the feul pump prime some time it still will not operate correctly. did you cange the unit and when was the last time it was changed? i know that was a problem for me.

 

[shift1313]

who's 88 did i miss something all well. on the subject at hand. even though you can hear the feul pump prime some time it still will not operate correctly. did you cange the unit and when was the last time it was changed? i know that was a problem for me.

I think he said he replaced the pump further up the post.

Joe, its an 86, so it would have been an early FI system. I didnt know if there was a change in 87. I did have an 86 302 but i didnt spend much time under the hood on it so i dont recall.

 

[BroncoJoe19]

I think he said he replaced the pump further up the post.
Joe, its an 86, so it would have been an early FI system. I didnt know if there was a change in 87. I did have an 86 302 but i didnt spend much time under the hood on it so i dont recall.

LMB he has two fuel pumps... a low pressure one in the tank (I'm not certain if that one HAD been changed or if he is going to change it when it stops raining, and a high pressure one on the rail. He def changed that one, and I am pretty sure that is the one that he would hear priming.

Matt, '86... '88 ahhh what's in a number, I'm off by less than 3% :blush: we're amoung friends right? I guess I had better put my glasses on or my brain in gear first.

Frankly I don't know for certain what they had in '86 or '88, I know that I read - the early EFI units used MAP and the later ones use MAF. I know that my '90 uses MAP so I imagine any EFI before mine used MAP also. Notice I didn't use the word assume (Bad News Bears.) I don't know if there was a different air mixture regulating sytem for EFI before MAP, not that that is surprising... there is a lot that I don't know.

Broncogurl86, do you happen to know if your EFI uses MAP or MAF ?

Had you changed out your in tank pump when you changed the sending unit?

 

[broncogurl86]

ok boys lets get one thing straight right now i am not a he i am a she thank you very much!!!! :lol: lol and please no jokes bout a woman doing the work i know more than most men round here when it comes to vehicles so please dont go there.

ok second the sending unit and low pressure pump are a combined unit in my 86 and yes all the power and ground cables have been checked. I had also replaced this before and after doing so i had no fuel pressure.

that is why i ordered a new one thinking that the one that i got might be faulty.

third my 86 has a MAP sensor just to answer that question and it was replaced just before i bought the bronco.

thanks for the info on the early 90's bronco ground but they will not work for me bc those years only had the one fuel pump where as mine as the two one on the frame rail and one in the tank.

also mine is a throttle body FI in it. although i know it is not the first yr that the bronco had fuel injected it is the yr that they really started to mass produce the FI in the broncos.

hopefully this answered some of the questions that you asked earlier on. Now i am just waiting on the weather to co-operate :angry: so that i can get the new sending unit in and see if that helps at all. In the mean time i need to figure out what is going on with my ignition since that seems to not be working now also it will do nothing but turn on the radio and work the back window so i am at a loss there since i have never really worked on a ignition prob. before.

Please keep the info coming you guys have been a great help so far thanks a million!!!!!

Please remember in the future that i am a woman hehehehheheheh thanks!!!!!

 

[love_my_bronco]

ok boys lets get one thing straight right now i am not a he i am a she thank you very much!!!! :lol: lol and please no jokes bout a woman doing the work i know more than most men round here when it comes to vehicles so please dont go there.
ok second the sending unit and low pressure pump are a combined unit in my 86 and yes all the power and ground cables have been checked. I had also replaced this before and after doing so i had no fuel pressure.

that is why i ordered a new one thinking that the one that i got might be faulty.

third my 86 has a MAP sensor just to answer that question and it was replaced just before i bought the bronco.

thanks for the info on the early 90's bronco ground but they will not work for me bc those years only had the one fuel pump where as mine as the two one on the frame rail and one in the tank.

also mine is a throttle body FI in it. although i know it is not the first yr that the bronco had fuel injected it is the yr that they really started to mass produce the FI in the broncos.

hopefully this answered some of the questions that you asked earlier on. Now i am just waiting on the weather to co-operate :angry: so that i can get the new sending unit in and see if that helps at all. In the mean time i need to figure out what is going on with my ignition since that seems to not be working now also it will do nothing but turn on the radio and work the back window so i am at a loss there since i have never really worked on a ignition prob. before. /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

Please keep the info coming you guys have been a great help so far thanks a million!!!!! /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

Please remember in the future that i am a woman hehehehheheheh thanks!!!!! /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

LMB is me lol i changed my feul pump thats why it says he.. we all know your a lady here.. well im still looking up my isues here so im at a loss. between a mis wired harness and engine rebuild and changing off parts im in a bind. ill post what you may fine helpfull but at tis point my brain is way too rattled lol.

 

[shift1313]

sorry broncogurl, that was my fault. Most of the time when I post im in a hurry and I didnt take the time to read your name, Duh!

one of the things you said was your bronco was a throttle body fi. Do you mean it actually is a TBI setup or does it have 8 fuel injectors. I thought all of the ford FI systems were multi port using one injector per cylinder.

for your other problems:

For the power issue you need to find exactly what is getting power with a meter. When you turn the key to the "on" position you should have power to your ignition coil. If you dont have 12v there you can stop and look into your wiring/fuse box.

If you do get 12v at the coil then you have to keep searching.

When you said the truck would start and die, did you mean it would idle(you could hear several cylinders firing) or it would just give one puff and cut off? Do you know if your distributor is actually turning inside the cap?

Also there is a signal wire that energized the starter solenoid. Have someone turn the key and see if you get 12v at this wire(i think its red or orange but i cant remember). Also there are a few styles of starter solenoids, some of them have two lugs for smaller(18ga) wire , one for 12v signal, one for ground. Other vehicles can use the same solenoid but it is grounded through the housing. Make sure this is properly grounded if you are indeed getting 12v to it when you turn the key.

It sounds like what happens with most, multiple problems that really throw you off when trying to troubleshoot. Hopefully the weather will clear up for you so you can get some work in.

One last thing that just popped into my head. Do these FI trucks have a fuel pump shutoff somewhere that needs to be reset? I know the cars have them.

 

[BroncoJoe19]

Great post Matt!

I'm also just as guilty with the male/female thing. I noted the name, and figured you were female, but since your gender wasn't actually declared, I figured it would be more insulting to call a male - she - than to simply go with the literary use of the male gender, unless corrected.

As Matt said, IF you don't have 12 v at the coil, then there is a break in the system some where. That could also include the ignition switch, (but since you hear your fuel pump(s) prime, I guess your switch is working.) There is a thread here if it looks like it might be the switch, we can help you find it if necessary, but again, I doubt it.

I think the reset that Matt is referring to is the fuel inertia switch under the dash driver side. He knows it is there, just haveing a little Sunday morning brain freeze I think. Probably needs a second cup of coffee /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> ANd if you hear the pump(s) prime, that switch is closed, as it should be.

Please answer the questions posted by Matt, as I had similar ones, and those answers will help to direct us to help you.