HELP! Elect. Fuel Pump Won't Pump?

[Orangecrush]

It's all I can do not to push this truck into a lake. $40k invested and it's a joke. Anyone swapped a sb chevy into a bronco? (

Okay, I replaced all the mickey moused fuel lines last night. They WERE all spliced together in literally 5 spots. They also were 1/4" (maybe even smaller?) lines. I just pulled them all off, from Fuel Filter back to the tank and replaced them with a single 3/8" goodyear rubber fuel line. There are no kinks and I've mounted it securely in many places along the frame. All I did was connect the hose to the outlet on my 23 gallon tank (elect fuel pump inside) and connect the other end to the input side of my fuel filter. That's it.

Now, when I try to start it, nothing happens. The fuel filter is glass; so, I can see if there is fuel being pumped. It's dry as a bone. I ran the starter for like 2 minutes straight......still nothing. Does it now need to be primed or someting? How might one do this?????

Fuel Tank: 23 gallon

Fuel Pump: Electric (in tank)

Fuel Line used: 3/8" rubber

Leaking Anywhere?: NO

Cranked Engine for: 2 minutes straight

Result: NO FUEL at fuel filter

Thanks in advance. :wacko:

 

[Orangecrush]

>> I think I've got it figured out (duh). I need to disconnect the fuel filter side of the fuel hose, and crank then engine until fuel starts to come out. Then reconnect it and all should be good....right? I guess the pump can't pump the fuel when the hose is full of air.

What can I say, I've never done this before.

 

[Bully Bob]

Wow...! did you break a mirror..?

Gotta love those "PO's" (prev. owners) ) Don't blame your truck/eng. it's a good rig.

Try dropping the supply line at the carb. (use a can to catch fuel) (why do you crank eng. if it's an elect. fuel pump ?) Turn on the key ....check for fuel in can/filt. ...if no then listen in filler cap hole to see if pump is running. (does it have a fuse?)

Does it still have the mechanical pump in line?

Plenty of fuel in tank?

If pump is running, pull line off filter & see if it wil come out there.

Maybe there's a "bug" living in your new fuel line. (I've had that happen)

:wacko:

 

[Orangecrush]

Wow...!  did you break a mirror..? Gotta love those "PO's"  (prev. owners) )   Don't blame your truck/eng. it's a good rig.

Try dropping the supply line at the carb. (use a can to catch fuel) (why do you crank eng. if it's an elect. fuel pump ?)  Turn on the key ....check for fuel in can/filt. ...if no then listen in filler cap hole to see if pump is running. (does it have a fuse?)

Does it still have the mechanical pump in line?

Plenty of fuel in tank?

If pump is running, pull line off filter & see if it wil come out there.

Maybe there's a "bug" living in your new fuel line. (I've had that happen)

:wacko:

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No, this things just a basket case. I'm dumping it. You should see the fist print in the front quarter panel!

The bottom line is this: it ran and pumped fuel 5 seconds before I removed the aold lines and installed the new. That's all it did. Now, NOTHING!

I pulled the line at the carb and cranked and cranked and cranked and cranked!! Nothing. Then, I even siphoned fuel up to the carb (filled the filter) and quickly re-atteched. Then cranked and cranked and cranked and cranked......the fuel just drained backwards and emptied the fuel filter.

I give up. I'll just chalk this think up to a $40k mistake. ****, I've lost way more in the stock market and it didn't **** me. I'll never touch another Ford as long as I live. Every hotrod shop I go to asks if it's still got a Ford motor. When I say "yes", they usually try to find 50 reasons why they're too busy to take my business. Others just say they won't work on old Fords. One guy told me that even a '32 Ford is worth about 1/2 as much if it still has a Ford engine in it and hasn't been "upgraded" to a Chevy.

I'm sure this thing is using the elect. pump in the tank that came with it.....I'll triple check to make sure there isn't a mechanical pump that's still connected.

 

[Broncoholics]

If you run your tank out of gas a few times it will burn up the electric pump inside the tank. I don't like electric pumps as they can leave you stranded and take time to replace. I seem to have good luck with the mechanical. You can always have a spare and change it anywhere, anytime and its easy.

Have you tried blowing down the line to see if its clogged? Do you have two tanks? If so the switch could be bad. Mine broke and wouldn't let fuel through at all. But it sound like the electric pump. See if you bumped the connector that goes into the tank.

 

[Orangecrush]

Wow...!  did you break a mirror..? Gotta love those "PO's"  (prev. owners) )   Don't blame your truck/eng. it's a good rig.

Try dropping the supply line at the carb. (use a can to catch fuel) (why do you crank eng. if it's an elect. fuel pump ?)  Turn on the key ....check for fuel in can/filt. ...if no then listen in filler cap hole to see if pump is running. (does it have a fuse?)

Does it still have the mechanical pump in line?

Plenty of fuel in tank?

If pump is running, pull line off filter & see if it wil come out there.

Maybe there's a "bug" living in your new fuel line. (I've had that happen)

:wacko:

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Well Jesus jumping christ!!!!!!!! There is a mechanical fuel pump on this joke......why would my monkey of a mechanic use a mechanical fuel pump when there's a brand new elect. in the tank that he just installed. I'll going throw this guy through a wall if I ever see him again. GOD!!!!!!!!

 

[Broncoholics]

Are you sure he really installed it in the tank? I bet its in his tank! :blink:

Another good reason why you should do the work yourself.

 

[Orangecrush]

Are you sure he really installed it in the tank?  I bet its in his tank!  :blink:
Another good reason why you should do the work yourself.

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You gettin' the feeling this stuff is starting to drive me a little nuts? I'm sitting here at my desk, and all I can think about is why this Bronco doesn't work right. :blink:

I wonder if he even realized that the tank had the pump in there? I wonder if that is creating a bunch of resistance for the mechanical pump?

Well, it's still running rough and with about zero power at low RPM. Sort of sounds like it's not hitting all cylinders...but it is. If I HOG on it, it smooths out and sounds like it's got some power. If I gradually increase revs (in neutral) it just surges all around and misses. It's got to be WAY lean on the primary side, for some reason.

I can never get any black smoke to puff out the exhaust pipes. It's perfectly clear, but, smells of tremendous emissions. I think this is perfectly compatible with too lean.

The only thing I have left in my book of tricks is to try using a bunch of carb cleaner to see if I can clean up something that may be causing the problem. Any other ideas?? I don't have larger jets and have never re-jetted a carb; so, maybe that's something I shouldn't tackle?

I'll take direction from anyone who knows how to walk me through un-leaning the primary side of a Demon/Holly (same dif). :wacko:

 

[Bully Bob]

WOW..! We need to dedicate a special page here for ya 'til this is solved..! >

Trust me, I've had 6 of these rigs...many didn't run when I got'm & it had nothing to do with "Ford" .... it's the "PO's"

BTW chevy never made a rig like these. Mine is going on 40 yrs. old & I still "stick" all the other rigs including the "great-new-Rubicon"...save rock-crawling. (I have/like chevys as well)

Anyway, hard to diagnose over the e-line but the elect. pump should be able to feed the mech. pump once the air is out of lines. -OR- if you have some hose left, bypass the mech. pump temporarily, to see if that helps.

If not, un-plug the electric pump & run a hose fr. the mech. pump into a worthy gas-can. If good, this pump should **** fuel pretty quick.

NOW, The running sounds more like tune/timing issues but hard to tell until you get a steady flow of fuel/pressure.

Ask those mechanics why Ford is always up front at NASCAR? :blush:

It isn't Ford they don't like, it's the "shade-tree" mods that have been done to them over the years.

Again, that elect. pump should pump fuel all over the place with just the key on...with hose un-hooked.

Lastly, that carb. just may not be the "hot setup" for that eng. If you have a Bronco club in your town.....they would be happy to see you & help you toward love'n these tough reliable rigs like the rest of us. >

Keep posting...!!! Got to know how it works out..

Bob

 

[Bully Bob]

Something else.......

These rigs never had an elect. pump in the tank that I'm aware of. If in fact there is one....it's prob. some sort of "add-on"

HTh

Bob

 

[Orangecrush]

Yea, this is crazy. I know Ford makes some great stuff, I just get frustrated with how complicated it is and how little aftermarket there is.......but that's another story.

Now, back to the running issue:

* Doesn't like to idle and will stall when cold.

* At idle, it sounds odd....like it's missing, but it's not. All cyliinders are firing, but it sounds like a volkswagon bug not a cammed 351.

* If I really rev it aggressively, in neutral, it smooths out and sounds powerful

* If I rev it gradually, in neutral, it still sounds bad and the revs go up and down and it misses...no power

* Not every time, but often, it will pop back through the carb

* If I put it in gear, it will stall

* Even if I brake and gas at the same time, it still wants to die

* If I put it in gear and give it some gas (moderate throttle), it sparks right up

and goes smoothly.

* I've NEVER seen any black smoke coming out of the exhaust no matter what I do

Couple of other things to take into consideration:

1) The timing is supposed to be set at 12 initial; but, I have my doubts. The distributor is rotated as far as it can to the left (clockwise)....the vacuum attachment is actually hitting the water inlet neck.

2) The vacuum advance WAS (and still is) connected to a ported vacuum port. I now understand that it should be to a FULL vacuum port as the engine likes advance at idle and initial throttle to burn the fuel. Maybe this will help some.

3) The fuel tank is a new one from Wild Horses or Bronco Graveyard. It's the 23 Gallon and comes with the pump in the tank (I THINK??? maybe I'm wrong on that). Either way, it's not hooked up to a power source. If it's there, it's not doing anything. The mechanical pump is doing all the work.

I will put the advance on a full vacuum (manifold) port when I get home. I've done that before and the idle seemed to get choppier (like I have a big cam...but not that pleasing, just ***** sounding...still no power and will stall if put into gear).

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated as I'm losing my mind with this darn thing.

:blink:

 

[S_bolt19]

The only "in tank" fuel pumps for an EB are the ones that the Bronco warehouses sell inside their tanks..i.e BC Broncos or Wild Horses, etc. If you cut an old tank open and try to stick a pump in there, I hope your life insurance policy is paid up and will pay off for idioicy if you try and weld it back together.

You said you have a 23 gal. tank, where did you get it & did it have the pump in it already? Are all the vacuum hoses on the carb hooked up? What about your gas cap, is it vented? When I first got mine, it had a non vented locking gas cap and when pressure built up it would act like it was vapor locking. I got a vented cap and solved the problem. Are your fuel lines routed very close to your exhaust? If it is, then you could be vapor locking. Rubber lines don't dissapate heat as well as steel lines do.

On the note of speed shops busting your chops for owning a Ford, take it with a grain of salt and consider the source....Why do all of those dip sticks put Ford 9" axles under their street rods, cause a Ch*vy axle isnt strong enough to handle the power they are pushing....lol...for a Ford or Ch*vy engine.

 

[Bully Bob]

Yet another point....

Carb., intake, cam, & usually exh/headers all need to be compatable for the intended use of veh.

Street racing, circle track, drags, dirt, etc. etc.

Not & expert but your eng. may run rough even with a better carb. Meaning, I'm suspecious on the cam the most...?? :huh:

 

[Bully Bob]

Yea, this is crazy.  I know Ford makes some great stuff, I just get frustrated with how complicated it is and how little aftermarket there is.......but that's another story.
Now, back to the running issue:

* Doesn't like to idle and will stall when cold. 

* At idle, it sounds odd....like it's missing, but it's not.  All cyliinders are firing, but it sounds like a volkswagon bug not a cammed 351.

*  If I really rev it aggressively, in neutral,  it smooths out and sounds powerful

*  If I rev it gradually, in neutral, it still sounds bad and the revs go up and down and it misses...no power

*  Not every time, but often, it will pop back through the carb

*  If I put it in gear, it will stall

*  Even if I brake and gas at the same time, it still wants to die

*  If I put it in gear and give it some gas (moderate throttle), it sparks right up

    and goes smoothly.

*  I've NEVER seen any black smoke coming out of the exhaust no matter what I do

Couple of other things to take into consideration:

1)  The timing is supposed to be set at 12 initial; but, I have my doubts.  The distributor is rotated as far as it can to the left (clockwise)....the vacuum attachment is actually hitting the water inlet neck.

2)  The vacuum advance WAS (and still is) connected to a ported vacuum port.  I now understand that it should be to a FULL vacuum port as the engine likes advance at idle and initial throttle to burn the fuel.  Maybe this will help some.

3)  The fuel tank is a new one from Wild Horses or Bronco Graveyard.  It's the 23 Gallon and comes with the pump in the tank (I THINK???  maybe I'm wrong on that).  Either way, it's not hooked up to a power source.  If it's there, it's not doing anything.  The mechanical pump is doing all the work.

I will put the advance on a full vacuum (manifold) port when I get home.  I've done that before and the idle seemed to get choppier (like I have a big cam...but not that pleasing, just ***** sounding...still no power and will stall if put into gear).

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated as I'm losing my mind with this darn thing.

:blink:

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On1) Hitting neck....this is something the (any) mechanic should have caught. Looks like dist. is "set" a tooth or two off. Easy fix....it should rotate both directions W/O hitting objects. Prob. needs to be pulled, re-set, & re-timed. (Could be a big part of your problem.)

On2) I think the vac. advance is on the correct port. Straight vacuum would add a lot of adv. at idle.

On3) OK, ....."NO" elect pump operating in system. Hmmmm....some elect. pumps will not allow fuel to flow when 'not' running...or won't allow fuel to be pulled thru them. I would check with WH and/or JBG to see if they can give you a "heads" up on that.

There's a Gazillion aftermarket thingies out there.....as well as every orig. nut, bolt, & washer..... One of few vehicles that can say that.

BTW your eng. is not the orig. eng. .....EB's never came with a 351....Didn't know if you knew that.

 

[Orangecrush]

On1) Hitting neck....this is something the (any) mechanic should have caught. Looks like dist. is "set" a tooth or two off.  Easy fix....it should rotate both directions W/O hitting objects.  Prob. needs to be pulled, re-set, & re-timed. (Could be a big part of your problem.)On2) I think the vac. advance is on the correct port. Straight vacuum would add a lot of adv. at idle.

On3) OK, ....."NO" elect pump operating in system.  Hmmmm....some elect. pumps will not allow fuel to flow when 'not' running...or won't allow fuel to be pulled thru them.  I would check with WH and/or JBG to see if they can give you  a  "heads" up on that.

  There's a Gazillion aftermarket thingies out there.....as well as every orig. nut, bolt, & washer..... One of few vehicles that can say that.

BTW your eng. is not the orig. eng. .....EB's never came with a 351....Didn't know if you knew that.

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Yea, it's a 351W out of a '74 LTD (or so I was told).

Update: Guy at the speed shot advised not to rejet and basically said that likely isn't the prob. I went home and played with the advance to see if that's the problem. Here's the results:

1) with vacuum on ported (not full), I ******** the timing slightly.....it immediately stalled and would not re-start.

2) Applied FULL VACUUM to the advance mech.: It started but ran badly. Sounded like a big cam lope; but, I'm sure it was actually just over timed and trying to spin the crank the other way (igniting too soon).

3) Full vacuum but then rotated the distributor counter-clockwise slightly: This seemed to be a great setup. It was a little tought to start; but once it did, it seemed to hold the idle best, but it still had zero power and sounded a little dull. When I put it in gear, it still stalled.

As for the cam, it's pretty tame. It's designed for torque and really shouldn't create a problem. It doesn't even create much of a bumpy idle (when it does idle). The setup I have, in theory, should be good for the street...........but apparently somethings amiss.

At this point, I'm done..........................Unless someone has some other ideas...........this is pointless. I'll have it towed somewhere. When it's absolutely 100% perfect, they can call me to pick it up. If not, I think this thing's going to meet with a fire. Damn I'm frustrated. b-( b-(

 

[Bradt]

Could you have a vacuum leak somewhere?

brad

 

[Orangecrush]

Not at the carb base as far as I can tell. True though, that would cause low RPM power loss but at high RPM, it would clear up because of the massive draw from the engine.........Well, it's not at the carb base. I ran a propane tank all along it and it didn't elevate the RPM. Maybe the manifold?? This problem all started just after the manifold/carb/pertronix ignition install.

The vacuum seems about normal though. Ported is zero until you hit the throtle. Then it goes up to about 17 if I recall then starts to fall as I push the throttle further. The full vacuum is about 16" at idle (when it will idle), not in gear. It seems to me that's okay? I'd like to check the ported vacuum while in gear; but, it won't stay lit.

 

[Bully Bob]

Don't give up...! A shop with a scope may be the way to go. (Or, like I said your local BR. club)

Seriously, once it's runn'n sweet, you won't trade it for 6 chev. trucks.

 

[Orangecrush]

Mystery solved.....??? Maybe?? Today, afer fiddling with the float level, checking all bolts for a vacuum leak, spraying carb cleaner in the carb, etc., I started it up. I actuallly idled really nicely for a while. Then, I shut it off and walked back to the engine compartment. I noticed tons of fuel all over everything, even pooled up in the intake manifold! What??? So, I retightened the float adjustment bolt and ***** and made sure the gaskets were in place. I fired it up again and agin it ran nice for a second then started missing and black smoke coming out the exhaust.....with the engine on, i walked back in front and saw a fountain of gasoline spraying straight up out of a port?? I don't know carbs; so I don't know what that port it. It's in the front portion of the carb but behind the float bowls. It sticks up like a big ******. Why the heck would fuel, and I mean TONS of it, be fountaining out of this thing now?

I just feel like this whole experience may well be simply a junk carb with multiple problems. Nice goin' Barry Grant. Another satisfied customer here.

Barry Grant Demon= adios amigo.

Edelbrock 600 cfm= hello