302 to ethanol (e85)

[ToddJerad]

I am sure this has been talked about in the forum before, but couldn't find much on converting my 302 with carb. to use E85 instead of fossil fuel. Has anyone attempted this. As far as I know you need to convert the tubing and some other parts and change some timing orders in the spark plugs, but is there a kit or someone who knows exactly what to do. I think it is the way of the future or at least temporary future. If anyone has links or referrals that would be great. Thanks

 

[Bully Bob]

Changetoe85.com ....Think you need F.injection though.

The black strip at the top of this page has related info....

 

[ToddJerad]

Well I did some research and what I found out is that carbs can be converted. Ethanol burns at a higher rate therefore the jets need to be opened with a drill bit about 20 to 30% bigger to let more alcohol in which does not sound super difficult, but I am still confused about timing. A lot of sites say take it in for a tune up after you fix carb, rubber fuel lines, and other parts ethanol may eat through. I also hear about cold start problems that were fixed by people rigging up devices to use gas solely for cold weather starts. If anyone has done this or tried or has some more input, I might try to convert just in case foreign oil gets more taboo, not to mention I hear alcohol driven cars gets better performance and other benefits, not to mention maybe one day just distill my own gas (wouldn't that be nice, never have to bring beer anywhere).

 

[oleguy74]

first off dont drill jets!!!you can buy jets .just check your present jet size an go 20-30%bigger if thats what you want.if you ***** up a jet you will have to buy one any way...if you have a holley,they have kits for alc use.in the 50's-60's you could buy so-called jet drill sets.but even the hotroders soon learned that it was better to just buy bigger or smaller jets .

carb and fuel line mods done you will need to go to different heat range plugs,and timming adj.

 

[ToddJerad]

It seems like a process which can be done relatively cheaply then. So get new jets, replace some rubber lines, take to a shop to help with timing and then run on ethanol (seems easy enough). It seems like it would be a pretty cool thought to have a bronco running a little more eco friendly and off foreign fuel. Any one else thought about this, kind of scared to take the steps and not have a well running car?

 

[oleguy74]

E85 is 85% ethonol 15% gasolene.if it was 100%alchol you motor would not run well.compression in a real alc.motor is like 12.5 to 14 to one . no supercharger/blower.hence e85 or any alchol motor needs bigger jets.these old motors we use will be ok with e85.just a diff.tune up should be all thats needed.jets too.

 

[ToddJerad]

I do know of lots of 1/4 mile cars and trucks use E85, but how reliable is converting a bronco to E85 for a daily driver. I know pumps are hard to find, but will it be a constant struggle with compression and cold air starts. I live in LA and hear a lot about ethanol not working well in colder climates so another question I have is will there be times I wont start and therefore need to fabricate a gas spray nozzle for winter here. Basically am asking if it is as reliable as gasoline. I do know people who have used E85 with newer cars made for the stuff but have not seen or talked with anyone using it with a carburetor and older 302. So all input is greatly appreciated.

 

[Bully Bob]

Lets see...,

20-30% larger jets = 20-30% more fuel used = what...?, 12 MPG down to 7 MPG.

How much is E85 per gal...? is it that much cheaper...?

I don't see the savings here..help me out.......... /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> :wacko:

 

[oleguy74]

don't know what jet sizes realy need to be.but one thing for sure e85 engines are different,fi and all.but that don't mean carb engines won't work.problem is no-body is saying what older carb engines will realy need to performguess get a load and try it and see what happens.

 

[ToddJerad]

In regards to Bully Bob's post. From what I understand ethanol does of course burn faster than gasoline as to why bigger jets need to be introduced, but some research indicates that cleaner burning ethanol with the compression and tuning dedicated to E85 may help negate these losses in fuel consumption by increased mileage. Plus there is always the environmental side and ethanol is non-toxic, biodegradable, water-soluble and generally less harmful on the environment, not to mention political and economic problems coming from foreign and domestic oil. Also there is some upside in performance supposedly. Ethanol in LA is going anywhere from 3.50 to 4 dollars at the pump and gas is now going on average $4.10 with no signs of stability in price. Not to mention without getting too political on broncozone, who knows how long until the stuff we are using now is not so abundant or has to be cut back or rationed a little to control consumption. I know ethanol has many problems, which is why I was curious if any one had fine tuned this procedure with timing, compression, etc. Plus I think it would be really cool to have my 1970 gas eating bronco possibly turned into a truck that is better for the environment than a prius or some other supposed green cars. I know edelbrock makes an e85 carb starting at $600 and other companies as well so it is possible a lot more will be converting in the future as more companies start getting the idea. What do you guys think, doesn't sound too unrealistic?

 

[Bully Bob]

Love to idea.., don't get me wrong..... :-B -- playing "devils advocate/from Missouri" here....

"..ethanol is non-toxic, biodegradable, water-soluble and generally less harmful on the environment.."

Is this a given...? Anything burned converts to a gas & particles of some sort...may not be a prob. now but what about later..? What about the environment disruption & food flow disruption..& energy consumption producing this product.

What was the ratio.....something like 1 acre of corn/product =10gal of fuel..?

How 'bout electric...? 10 million electric cars in, let's say, Ohio .....how much more coal burned, etc. to charge these veh.?

Nuclear is the only answer....How 'bout a "Nuc" pill deposited in a chamber to run a hi-tec rotary "Wankel" steam eng.

(they could even do that W/aircraft carriers & submarines..... :lol: > )

 

[ToddJerad]

When I say generally less harmful I am talking compared to gasoline which does not burn as cleanly, but with E85 just adding the proper mixture of gas and alcohol greatly reduces greenhouse gases. I do understand the corn problem here in the US. My only answer or attempt is that in Brazil they use sugarcane. We have large amounts of sugarcane fields in hawaii which basically do not operate or harvest much anymore because of cheaper sugar imported from overseas. Instead of unemployed sugarcane farmers we can have our own (american) made fuel while still importing cheaper sugar overseas. If that idea is not feasible or will not work we can use potatoes as well. Soon enough I feel we will figure out a way to extend the energy our engines and machinery can burn on E85. I did read that one researcher found that E85 burns less energy than it takes to actually make the stuff creating a net loss in energy, but besides that theory if we work on perfecting the performance of our vehicles it seems that American made energy offers much more stability and empowers us more as a nation. The reason I personally like ethanol and or other alcohol burning ideas is that it seems simple enough to adapt our equipment, machinery and vehicles to burn it where as with other ideas e.g. hydrogen and possibly nuclear may be great concepts for our future cars, but what about machinery that already exists? I think it is a very interesting topic and hopefully we can come up with a way to somehow get more energy out of ethanol, as that looks like the main problem.

 

[Bully Bob]

Actually Todd, I agree...,

"....hopefully we can come up with a way to somehow get more energy out of ethanol.."

I just see this as a "band-aid" for a serious problem. I have to wonder how many acres per car, per yr. are needed, to be processed..? --- & if the # of cars grows....what then..?

But, besides that.... I don't see the older engines, & heavy vehicles benefitting fr. this...at least not yet.

I forget the exact formula....something like 17/1 air to fuel mixture to get the most efficiency fr. a combustion gas engine.

There's no miracle fuel & eng. that runs ,say 50/1 air to fuel.....but we need one FAST...!!

Mag/Lev cars...? wouldn't that be neat........? /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

Fun subject though...........

 

[BroncoJoe19]

Mag/Lev cars...? wouldn't that be neat........? Fun subject though...........

800 years old I will be, before the end of my time will come.

Mag/Lev cars? hmmmmm in the future they WILL come. OF this I am sure. Yes.

 

[walkercreekbronco]

Why switch to ethanol when it's not any cheaper?

If it's to be "environmentally friendly", you should do some research. Brewing ethanol requires huge amounts of energy and uses insane amounts of fresh water.

The only reason ethanol is even close to gasoline in price is because of all the tax breaks given to the ethanol plants and the subsidies given to farmers.

 

[Bully Bob]

There ya go..., What he said..! >

 

[ToddJerad]

I think the ethanol discussion about the environment still has some discussion but I do think it is much cleaner burning when talking about emissions. As far as how we distill, produce, and harvest the crops, we still have work to do in terms of making it better for environment like walkercreekbronco said. I do not think ethanol is really cheaper right now because you do consume more and it is still close to 3 plus a gallon in LA (trendy factor) which is a dollar more than most places. My point was that the one of the most important issues of today for North America is just getting off foreign oil. Not to mention the possibility of one day making our own fuel from local resources in a way to benefit economy and get us away from any attachment to these foreign businesses/monopolies that could tomorrow say we are out of supply and now it is 200+ a barrel. Not saying this is going to happen but we have to be prepared and ethanol was a nice thought that probably can be perfected with research. It would be nice to have my 302 burning something which in the near future is cleaner and better for America while driving the Fords, chevys etc. that we all love. It is easy to look at negatives but i believe with research and the growing consumer demand and anger over our governments lack of development for alternative fuel, the free market will sooner than later demand a better product. Not to mention it seems easier to possibly one day convert a lot of our machinery to possibly burn ethanol or something similar rather than replacing all machines with a hybrid or plug in hookup, hydrogen, or other sources way down the line in the future. Crops can be regrown, technology can become better, but can fossil fuel last forever and what is the price you are willing to pay to drive your car down the street or to trail ride 5 years from now?