Bronco project Mechanical Issues.

Ok now I have started with the mechanical side to this Bronco project. Got the fluids changed, motor and tranny. New plugs, wires, coil, cap and rotor. Now it cranks up great with the exception of having to push the gear shift up to crank it. But the major issue is when put into drive the rpm's drop then go up and drop and go then drops and dies. the alternator gauge does it at the same time. Any ideas? I have never encountered this issue before.

Well the issues continue. The rear end on my Mazda went out so the bronco is on hold. Sent and found another and it be better. 3.73 limited slip. How lucky can you get. But still trying to figure out the stalling problem. Guess no one has a clue as I am stumped too. But I guess I will try pulling the sensors and taking them to Autozone and have them tested. Well gotta get the Mazda back on the road first.

You Ken,

Is check engine light on with engine running?

Anyway,Try a Self Test for Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC)s by my pal, BroncoJoe19

http://broncozone.com/topic/14269-code-reader/?pid=74587&mode=threaded

Some basics;

The engine temperature must be greater than 50° F for the Key On Engine Off (KOEO) Self-Test and greater than 180° F for the Key On Engine Running (KOER) Self-Test.

Run it around to heat the engine up and shift thru all gears including Reverse.

Make sure A/C is off and transmission is in Park (automatic); or in Neutral for a Manual & release clutch.

Then turn off engine, all accessories/lights (close driver's door) , etc.

Do KOEO test First

Post Code(s) here according to:

KOEO

&

KOER

***

For now, see this

http://www.thedieselstop.com/faq/9497faq/maint/vra/leftside=vras2al.htm&rightside=vras2ar.htm

&

http://www.thedieselstop.com/faq/9497faq/maint/vra/leftside=vras2al.htm&rightside=vras2ar.htm

No the CEL is not on. it lights up when the key is turned but as soon as it cranks it goes off. outside of shutting off in drive, it purrs like a kitten. I will do the tests after the Mazda is back on the road.

I got the new rear end up in place last night. hope to be finished tonight. then back to the bronco.

Okay. The mazda is done for now and back to the bronco. It got a complete tuneup new iac valve and map sensor and coolant temp sensor. checked codes with obd1 scan tool and got 3-3-1-3-3 and then nothing. let it warm up some more and rechecked same codes. I put it in drive and it revs too about 1k and dies down to below 500 and revs up and dies down and revs up and dies completely. sometimes it will start right back up and some time it has to wait a min or two. any ideas?

Ken

Yo Ken,

You should get just 3 digit codes.

I would be guessing about the iac,Idle Air Control (IAC) Sludge; Poor Idle TSB 91-25-07 for 85-92 Bronco & F Series & many others; "...Hard cold starts, hesitation and stalls on initial start-up or during idle or decel may be caused by sludge in the throttle body and/or idle by-pass valve. Sludge deposits or oil film on the throttle body bore and plate or the idle air by-pass valve may cause one or more of the following conditions. Hard Cold Start, Stall On Initial Start-Up, Stall During Idle, Stall During Decel, Rough Idle, Rolling Idle, Hesitation During Acceleration. A new idle air by-pass service kit (F2PZ-9F939-A) is now available for service use to correct sludge contamination concerns of the throttle bore and plate only. It eliminates the need to clean the majority of past model throttle body applications..."

Idle or Noise Problems & Troubleshooting; including HIGH IDLE Conditions; "...For high idle problems, try unplugging the IAC motor. If the idle drops, its usually due to an input signal to the computer which results in the computer raising the idle speed. If this is the case, look at all of the computer inputs to make sure everything is up to par. If the engine RPM does not drop when the IAC motor is disconnected, then either the IAC motor is not functioning properly, or, there is a vacuum leak in the engine. Stop the engine, remove the IAC motor and block off the passages. Restart the engine to see if there is any change in engine RPM. An idle speed higher than base idle specs indicates a vacuum leak. If the engine RPM is at base idle specs, then the IAC motor is bad. Resistance specs are 7-13 ohms. A good resistance reading does not necessarily mean that the IAC motor is good. Occasionally, an IAC motor will become weak, and will actually bypass too much air, causing a high idle condition even though everything else is operating properly..."

This is by Ford in 93 pced for rolling idle

http://www.thedieselstop.com/faq/9497faq/maint/vra/vra02011.htm#vra02chart6

Well, I have a new IAC valve, new map sensor, new coolant temp switch, new distributor cap and rotor, new wires, new plugs, oil and filter, tranny fluid and filter. When cold it will die when you put it into drive and sometimes in reverse. after it warms up some only in drive, and when at full operating temp it does it intermittingly. at idle and in neutral it purrs like a kitten and revs up very quickly when applied. the problem is when it is pulled into drive. also when you go to take off it jerks and jumps from a dead stop. when rolling it is fine. It still has the egr valve and air pump. vacumn leak a good possibility, but I have finished replacing all the hoses yet. still trying to figure out that stinking smog setup. or better yet on how to get rid of it.

Ken

You Ken,

Can you try the code test again?

Also, when it is running, try the iac test.

Some aftermarket sensors are suspect.

TSB 91-25-07 also yaks about throttle body sludge. I suggest waiting on inspecting it until we can get a code.

Vacuum Line Routing Diagram in a 93

http://web.archive.org/web/20141228144231/http://broncozone.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=10584

by bronco5.8 (Sam) at Ford Bronco Zone Forums

This will help.Vacuum Hose (Line) Replacement w/Rubber Hose in an 89 F 150 5.0; "...This should cover most 87-96 V8s (302\351); for the I6s (300)s the solenoids are in the same general area, as well as the valves. You can use this article as a basis to replace yours, just keep in mind it..." by Booba5185 (Matt) at http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/21-noobie-bronco-tech-questions-flame-free-zone/

btw, also check hvac lines and devices in cab.

See my vacuum leak test at

http://broncozone.com/topic/23994-90-58l-getting-continuous-code-33-and-running-code-44/?p=125535

Post #20.

A vacuum gauge is a great and inexpensive diagnostic tool

See the Vacuum Line Acronyms: (Later Years)

Ok I did the test again. 33 1 33. koer I got 4. disconnected the iac and rpms dropped. replaced some hoses and the egr position sensor. all the rest of the vacuum lines are color coded hard plastic.

let it run till it was operating temp and put it in drive and it varied a little up and down but didn't stall. so going to let it sit till tomorrow and take it out for a drive. we'll see what happens.

yo Ken,

DTC 33 is triggered when the EVP sensor is not closing;

This code could be caused by several different factors. If the pintle position sensor (Ford calls it the EVP sensor) is shorted or open, you could have a code set. If the EGR valve becomes carboned up and does not seat fully, the EVP sensor gives a high reading and a code is set. If the diaphragm of the EGR valve is bad, then it, too, is flagged..."

Source: by Harry G

Testing & Operation

Source: by Ryan M. At

http://web.archive.org/web/20130912124008/http://www.oldfuelinjection.com/?p=35

Well I have cleaned all the carbon I can find without taking the throttle body apart or remove it for better cleaning. Going to get another charcoal canister tomorrow, now what is the purpose of that coffee can looking item. I believe I just need to strip all the emissions crap off of it and run it like my mazda with no egr. I tested it and drove it and it would fluctutate from 1100 rpms to 400 back up and back down about 2 to 3 times and quit when I pull it into drive. sometimes in reverse as well but not that often. at operating temp only in drive and at operating temp it would not do it but just once in a while, Then I took it on the street and it stalled or died at the stop signs. all sensors are new, not junk yard replacements. I do work for an autoparts store parttime. so it would be not worth it to use those from there when you can't test them. It kinda felt like it was in low range or 4wd when I took off and couldn't find passing gear. from a start it would jump and shake but only at take off.

Yo,

The coffee can is Very Important and OFTEN Rusts on bottom.

Vacuum Reservoir (VRESER); stores excess vacuum to prevent rapid fluctuations and sudden drops in a vacuum signal, such as during acceleration

Some grab a yard queens plastic vacuum tank from 95 or 96 Broncos, trucks or vans

http://web.archive.org/web/20130609193037im_/https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/848332/fullsize/vacc-001.jpg location pic by Juice

well I found how to duplicate the idle stalling issue. with motor at idle I disconnected the egr and put a vacuum pump to it and at 5inhg it started it again. and the vacuum is zero on both sides. I think it could be the evr solenoid. possibly the egr as well. if so i'll strip the smog crap off before I spend another $100 to try to fix that. just have to know the new vacuum hose routinig.

Well I am going to pick up a evr solenoid today. If that don't work then my project will be put on hold till I can get it into my shop and rip all that smog crap off it and do a top end gasket change and clean up. If you have any other ideas i'll be glad to try them. but all issues seem to be pointing to the smog equipment.

Yo,T

EVR testing & Diagram; "... vacuum should vent from the green line on a good valve NOT energized. When energized, vacuum should hold from the black to the green. Resistance across the terminals should be 20-70 ohms..."

by Steve at

http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/173786

Testing, Ford; "....check the filter on the solenoid (Fig. 4, EVR filter shown). If this is clogged it will inhibit the venting of the solenoid; "...EVR Solenoids should be 20 to 70 ohms (100 to 135 ohms for 7.5L engines). A functional test can be performed on most applications by using a Scan Tool. Enter the Output State check and cycle the accelerator pedal. This will turn all the solenoids on and off. Using a DVOM monitor the voltage at the EGR solenoid(s). They should toggle from a high voltage to a low voltage. Typically this is stated in the manuals and scan tools as above 10.5 volts to below 2 volts. If the voltage does not toggle make sure that you have system voltage on the power side of the connector. If system voltage is present and the voltage does not cycle to the low side check the connector and wiring to the PCM. If the wiring and connector are okay the problem may be in the pin at the PCM or the driver in the computer itself..." READ MUCH MORE

by TomCo at

http://web.archive.org/web/20110704111747/http://www.tomco-inc.com/Tech_Tips/ttt32.pdf

Well I pulled and blocked the egr and vacuum to it. and I found the pipe broke under the air manifold, plenium or whatever it's called or spelled in this case. So a top end redo is on the books. All but the heads. Intake and up. will pull all smog crap and if I can't figure out how to bypass the sensors, I'll just have to learn to live with the CEL on all the time. If anyone has the info I need please pass it on. I don't need it here cause we only do safety inspections in my county.

Well it seems I get one delay after another. Rain and Rain and we got more rain. Well my little work truck is sick again, this time it's universal joints couldn't handle the torque the motor mods and new rearend put out. plus the s10 and mazda need new exhaust. And my bronco is going to get a new top end. good bye egr and smog pump. that egr pipe is almost $100 depending on where you find it if you can be that lucky. Just as long as that beast is ready for winter I'll be happy. I still got a lot of mods and upgrades to filter through. But she'll be a beast no less. A street beast. not into the off road stuff I'll leave that to you younger guys. Still need any and all info I can get for eliminating the smog system without going carb.

Yo,

These parts are commonly used & available via google searches

Following parts are commonly used & available via google searches:
You are looking for Thermactor Plugs, some use 5/8" by 11 by 1" SS bolts while others have welded holes closed.
Stainless Steel Thermactor Smog Plugs the holes in the back of your cylinder heads when removing the exhaust crossover tube. Comes with 2 stainless plugs and Loctite. Hex head makes installation easy when the engine is still in the vehicle.

by Ryan M. 

Thermactor Smog Plugs, EGR Eliminator Overview, EGR Block Off Plate, EVR, CANP, TAB & TAD Actuator Eliminator Resistor & Parts List & pics; need one 75 ohm 3 watt Resistor for each item removed, EVR, CANP, TAB & TAD solenoids
by Ryan M. But company is out of business.
https://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_153823094736314&key=6ed47b392b9edfe394b9e89b72717104&libId=jmniwamh01000bgv000MA1omel57xq17et&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fullsizebronco.com%2Fforum%2F21-noobie-bronco-tech-questions-flame-free-zone%2F435826-vacuum-delete.html%23post6207818&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20120820002649%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.rjminjectiontech.com%2Fcollections%2Fegr-eliminators&title=Vacuum%20delete%20-%20Ford%20Bronco%20Forum&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F201208200...gr-eliminators

EGR Eliminator Installation Manual by Ryan M. @ Wayback Machine

Here is Ryan M's now closed parts site @ RJM Injection Tech ? Welcome 

 "...What you need to do is electrically plug in the TAB and TAD solenoids but remove the vacuum lines, then all the air injection plumbing and valves can be removed and the heads plugged. The EGR is a seperate system from the Thermactor and the computer treats it very differently, it also helps increase milage and power so it's a good idea to keep it anyway. If you have the DPFE system there is no way to bypass it without the computer knowing and throwing a code so you may as well keep it intact. you'll get codes if you remove the solenoids, the easiest way to avoid this is to just leave them plugged in. The TAB and TAD you could fake out pretty easy, but even the old EGR system can't be faked because the computer both commands valve movement and watches for feedback to confirm it happened, so a dummy resistor won't cut it. 
Source: by Conanski 

Ryan also sold;
Actuator Eliminator Resistor $2.00 each 
75 ohm 3watt Resistors can also be used to eliminate the EVR, CANP, TAB & TAD solenoids. 

A neat mod by jrichker; "...Put the resistor inside the heat shrink tubing and crimp the connectors on. I would choose the Ford pin connectors since they should plug in the TAB & TAD wiring. That way you haven't modified the wiring so it is easy to re-install the TAB & TAD solenoids if emissions testing comes to your area. 18 gauge crimp on taps..."
read more and see many pics.
at https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/are-the-tad-tab-vacuum-solenoids-needed.791134/
...
EGR Location & Block-Off Plate pic in an 89 @ https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/439467/fullsize/dsc02766.jpg
Source: by Tim C (TnTbronco2, Trail Truck, Street Truck, Crazed, Broke, OoG)

Call pciinc.com for the crossover tube, etc.  They sell direct; NAPA and probably other parts stores carry their products.

Eliminator Overview, EGR Block Off Plate, EVR, CANP, TAB & TAD Actuator Eliminator Resistor & Parts List & pics; need one 75 ohm 3watt Resistor for each item removed, EVR, CANP, TAB & TAD solenoids

Some pics of each, but company is out of business

RJM Injection Tech http://web.archive.org/web/20120820002649/http://www.rjminjectiontech.com/collections/egr-eliminators

Smog Pump Belt Removal:

Removal, Belt in a 95 5.8; "... I have a 351, so i know mine is a little different. but my stock belt was 93.5 inches. when i took off the smog pump, i needed a belt 2 inches shorter. 91.5. thats the stock sized belt for a 90 bronco with a 302. so says the autparts store. if yours is like mine, and you need to lose two inches, try a belt 2 inchs smaller than stock. all my accesorys are placed like in the diagrame fireguy just posted. i also beleive there was a thread about this not to long ago, and people were listing part numbers...: by Alan T (GearHead)

Removal, Belt in an 88 5.0; "...I tried an 89.5" first, 2 inches shorter than stock and it was too long. So I went back hoping for something about 88 or so and all they had was a 87.5. It was a bit short and a royal pita to put on but it is running fine. A lil tight but it should hold till I get an 88.2 which they can order." by fright88

Removal, Belt Part Number 882K6 in an 88 5.0 by Barbaric35

Removal, Belt Part Number in an 89 5.8; NAPA Belt Part # 060825 by Cucamongan (Scotty) at SuperMotors.net

Removal, Belt Part Numbers & Applications in a 96 5.8; "...On my 96 5.8L I had to get a 95" belt (6k945) and it barely fit on it. 95.25 would of been better though..."  by Cheapthrillb2

Removal, Belt Part Numbers & Applications in an 88 5.8 by El Bicho (wwatsonh, Will) @ https://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/7-1980-96-bronco-tech/70160-part-application-smog-delete-belt.html

Removal, Belt Part Numbers & Applications in an 89 5.8; "...Got a 91" belt and it fits perfectly, the pointer on the tensioner was right in the middle of the range area...: by moz_21

Smog pump Removal in a 93 5.8; "... I replaced the heads I took the air system off and have not have any codes but I made my own vacuum lines with mostly 3/16 fuel line there is a vacuum thing on the passanger side above the exhaust and one on the hose that comes up from the cat they go to two different sensors I just tied them together just remember the black goes to the top and tie the bottom ports together with small hose I used fuel line just because they are thicker..." see pics by bronco5.8 (Sam) at http://broncozone.com/topic/21532-removing-air-pump/
***

Wiring resistors in for TAB/TAD Solenoids; "Put the resistor inside the heat shrink tubing and crimp the connectors on. I would choose the Ford pin connectors since they should plug in the TAB & TAD wiring. That way you haven't modified the wiring so it is easy to re-install the TAB & TAD solenoids if emissions testing comes to your area. 18 gauge crimp on taps Catalog # 64-3053

Two flat pin connectors.

One 82 ohm, 3 watt resistor. (diff Ford/..)

One piece 3/8" heat sink tubing 2" long.

Two pieces 3/16" heat shrink tubing 1 1/2" long.

Solder the pins onto the resistor leads using electrical solder.

Slide the 3/8" heat shrink tubing over the resistor.

Slide the two pieces of 3/16" heat shrink tubing over the two wires, leaving the flat part of the pins uncovered

It helps to have the resistor leads straight and not bent as shown in the first picture when you apply heat to the heat shrink tubing. That way, the tubing shrinks more evenly.

Finally, apply heat to shrink all the tubing uniformly

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n132/Mumblerone/IMG_1366Medium.jpg

Bend the leads to fit the spacing on the female TAB & TAD connector sockets.

Push the connector pins of the completed resistor assembly into the empty female TAD or TAD connector sockets on the wiring harness. The resistor assemblies replace the missing solenoids: one resistor assembly per solenoid socket..."

read more and see many pics.

at http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_146245982083811&key=6ed47b392b9edfe394b9e89b72717104&libId=inuesiya01000bgv000MA1nekjd9x&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fullsizebronco.com%2Fforum%2F21-noobie-bronco-tech-questions-flame-free-zone%2F170822-wiring-resistors-tab-tad-how.html&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stangnet.com%2Fmustang-forums%2F790379-finally-learned-how-read-codes.html&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fullsizebronco.com%2Fforum%2F21-noobie-bronco-tech-questions-flame-free-zone%2F417409-egr-smog-deletes.html&title=wiring%20resistors%20in%20for%20TAB%2FTAD%2C%20how%20to%3F%20-%20Ford%20Bronco%20Forum&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stangnet.com%2Fmustang-foru...ead-codes.html

 Block-Off Plate pic in an 89 by Tim C (TnTbronco2, Trail Truck, Street Truck, Crazed, Broke, OoG) at

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_146245986167812&key=6ed47b392b9edfe394b9e89b72717104&libId=inuepu4g01000bgv000MAemp1417l&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fullsizebronco.com%2Fforum%2F21-noobie-bronco-tech-questions-flame-free-zone%2F417409-egr-smog-deletes.html&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.supermotors.net%2Fclubs%2Fsuperford%2Fvehicles%2Fregistry%2Fmedia%2F439467&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fullsizebronco.com%2Fforum%2Fsearch.php%3Fsearchid%3D12800994%26pp%3D20%26page%3D4&title=EGR%20and%20Smog%20Deletes%20-%20Ford%20Bronco%20Forum&txt=1989%20Ford%20Bronco%20Misc%205%20picture%20%7C%20SuperMotors.netEGR Location & Block-Off Plate pic in an 89 @ https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/439467/fullsize/dsc02766.jpg by Tim C (TnTbronco2, Trail Truck, Street Truck, Crazed, Broke, OoG)

EGR Eliminator Installation Manual by Ryan M. @ gmail 

thttp://web.archive.org/web/20110704111604/http://rjminjectiontech.com/EGR_eliminator.pdf

Ok, I got about everything laid out to get ready to pull smog crap and get old stuff fixed. I did find a plug unit for egr to turn off the cel. But I am pulling it down to the heads. I am going to clean and rebuild the fuel injectors, and the lifters. Replaceing all gaskets, and a bit of painting as well. About a week to two week job and it will look and run good. still need to find an ignition box for a good price. that will help with HP and fuel, think I will pressure wash under the hood first to clean the rest. We'll see how it goes. I'll try to take pictures this time. /