Motor cuts out

Tractorman

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Hi, I am a new bronco owner, I have an 89 bronco 2 3.9. Twice now while out with 4x4 group the motor has just quit and I have had to be towed. The first time a blocked filter was diagnosed and changed. Second time out after that it happened again, had it towed to the shop but by the time they got to it the next day it started up and ran fine and has continued to do so, however I am worried that if I go out in the desert again it will do the same thing and then the guys won't want me to go play with them.

The check engine light is often on but I was told I could ignore that as it was likely the oxygen sensor, it always resets itself when motor restarted.

Any help gratefully appreciated.

 

Bully Bob

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Hi.., welcome..! 

Did you SEE the blockage..? i.e. did you look at what plugged the filter..?

There could be debris floating around in the tank.  Viewing the guts of the filter is always helpful.

Bouncing around in the dirt sturrs this stuff up & sends it up stream.

Shutting the eng. off sometimes allows it to clear itself.

 
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Tractorman

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Thanks for that, unfortunately I did not see the filter, I was wondering if it would be worthwhile taking the new one off and checking again. Also reading through the forums I see there is an inertia switch somewhere on the drivers side floor, as I'm bouncing around the desert could this have activated and can it reset itself?

 

Rons beast

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Whoever told you to, "ignore the check engine light"....Ignore them. The light indicates the computer has senced a condition that is detrimental to the engine, and/ or outside the perameters programed, or a demand has been made that cannot be fulfilled.

In the least the code gives you information as to what may be happening in your engine.

Never ignore it. 

 

miesk5

96 Bronco 5.0
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Yo T,

As Ron advised;

Try a Self Test for Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC)s by my pal, BroncoJoe19

http://broncozone.com/topic/14269-code-reader/?pid=74587&mode=threaded

Some basics;

The engine temperature must be greater than 50° F for the Key On Engine Off (KOEO) Self-Test and greater than 180° F for the Key On Engine Running (KOER) Self-Test.

Run it around to heat the engine up and shift thru all gears including Reverse.

Make sure A/C is off and transmission is in Park (automatic); or in Neutral for a Manual & release clutch.

Then turn off engine, all accessories/lights (close driver's door) , etc.

Do KOEO test First

Post Code(s) here according to:

KOEO

&

KOER

GL!

 

Tractorman

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At first glance that sounds really complicated but I will do my best to get down to it. I'm from the uk and I am used to dealing with carburetor sand spark plugs, injection is foreign to me, also the nearest thing to engine management I am used to is an ignition light and an oil light, that's it. I need to learn

,

 

Rons beast

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Not a problem T-man.

Injection is actually simpler than a carb.  A high pressure fuel pump (35-60 lbs.) pushes fuel in a loop to the injectors and back to the fuel tank.

The injectors open and spray fuel into the intake manifold runners or directly into the combustion chambers. This makes for a better air/ fuel mixture that can be ignited and burned more thoroughly producing more energy per fuel burned than a poorly atomized carb supply.

The time when and for how long the injectors are opened is determined by the computer as it gets inputs from various sensors and processes that information with pre-programmed information to set minimal parameters.

Clearer now?......Learning is a marathon not a sprint...relax and you'll understand more each time you work on your truck.

Good Luck

 

Tractorman

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That is a great explanation, thank you. I am heading off to a local shop tomorrow and they are going to do a computer check for me, hopefully that will throw up some answers. I am caught up here because I am in a 55+ rv park here in Yuma and they don't like you getting down and dirty with the vehicles so I have to go on local knowledge and referrals.

Will let you know if we find anything tomorrow, my money is on filter (again) or pump.

 

Bully Bob

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Auto parts store will pull up your codes for free if that's of interest.

Then, according to the results, you can decide to fix it yourself or head to a shop.

It's also possible the code issue(s) is not what is stalling the eng.

M5 & Ron have you on the correct path so, time will tell.... :D/

 

Tractorman

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Took it for a first check up at the shop today, guy seems to think that the fuel sensor located between cylinder head and firewall could be getting too hot, says it's a regular issue. It's going back in Monday for more extensive testing, will keep you posted.

 

Tractorman

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Went to the shop today, no result. He has pulled the codes and only the o2 sensor shows up. The fuel pressure is good. He has tried but can't get it to fail. Thinks it might be the ignition module and suggests I just take it and if it fails again immediately check for spark. This is so annoying!

 

Bully Bob

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All systems operate in failure mode...,  tell your buds that you might be towing them in one day. It's just

part of the game.

BTW.., did it quit abruptly or sputter somewhat then quit..?

Take it out-n-bounce it around a while. If it dies again.., do the spark test as I & your mechanic suggested.

Then, if no spark,  you'll know what to look for.

Auto parts sell an in-line spark tester that lights up. Easy way to check  out on the trail. 

 

Tractorman

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I like the spark tester, I will get one of those. I'm thinking a fuel pressure tester to check pressure when it dies might be a useful addition as well.

When it dies it sort of lets you know by faltering for a few seconds before finally quitting, no amount of pedal action makes any difference.

 

Bully Bob

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Spark checker is inexpensive.

Fuel press. tester is prob. expensive.  You can rent for a day for free at auto parts.

However.., I doubt the pump is intermittent.  I think they get weaker & weaker, or

simply fail to operate the injectors.

And, pretty sure the eng. has to be running to test.

 

miesk5

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Yo T,

Do you have the oxygen sensor code number?

Just asking even though the oxygen sensor is Not likely the stall and no start cause.

****

I tend to agree with the mechanic because;

Ignition Control Module (ICM) (Ford) General Descriptions; "...A major cause of failure is heat... especially typical on Ford, is intermittent failure. The car runs okay for a while, then stops. When it cools, it runs okay for a while longer. Then it stops again. And so on. This is a fairly certain indication of a heat failure fault which can be prevented from recurring by re-locating the ICM to a place away from the engine. See article below.

****

As Bob and your mechanic advised, test for spark when it stalls and won't run;

Ignition Coil Secondary Voltage Test

Coil Voltage Test #1 - Crank Mode

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/images/TFI_sparktest.gif

1 - Connect a spark tester between the ignition coil wire and a good engine ground.

2 - Crank the engine and check for spark at the tester.

3 - Turn the ignition switch OFF.

4 - If no spark occurs, check the following:

a. Inspect the ignition coil for damage or carbon tracking.

b. Check that the distributor shaft is rotating when the engine is being cranked.

c. If the results in Steps a and b are okay, go to Test #4.

5 - If a spark did occur, check the distributor cap and rotor for damage or carbon tracking. Go to the Coil Voltage Test #2

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/TFI_Diagnostic.shtml

****

Btw, Stator and TFI both share the same grounds and power circuits, when one fails the other might be bad as well. Its a standard practice at dealerships and most quality repair shops to replace the TFI and stator at the same time. This prevents the problem from re-appearing a few weeks later. by Ryan M

****

ICM Relocation; on a Ranger/Bronco II.

http://therangerstation.com/tech_library/remote_tfi.htm

****

FYI "...Ford calls this electronic ignition the Thick Film Integrated-IV (TFI-IV) ignition system. The TFI module is also known as the Ignition Control Module (ICM) which reports engine position and rpm to the PCM. The PCM then determines the proper spark timing and advance, and returns a reference signal to tell the TFI module to switch the coil, thereby creating a spark. The PCM used on these vehicles is referred to by Ford as the Electronic Engine Control-IV (EEC-IV) module.

GL!

 

Tractorman

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That sounds absolutely spot on, that fix is what I will do. It's not a big thing and definitely worth doing, especially as I am in Yuma where it is very warm. Many thanks, will keep you posted as I go along.

 

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