Crank, No Start, No spark.

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SwiftBronco

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Heyo Broncozone! Glad to see this website still kicking!

I have a Crank, No Start on my 1988 Bronco. I used a spark tester and verified no spark is there. 

I used this website http://easyautodiagnostics.com/ford/4.9L-5.0L-5.8L/ignition-control-module-tests-1 to further help in my diagnosing.

My Bronco has a Distributor mounted ICM, with a Push-On Rotor.

SO, At this time I have performed the following tests.

I have NO Trigger coming from ICM (Ignition Control Module). The Testlight (Normal and LED) lights up when connected. But does not flash when cranking. However when I stopped cranking it flashed once. (Test performed at ICM Conn.)

I have verified Battery Voltage at ICM and a good ground aswell. 

I tested for signal from Profile Ignition Pickup (PIP, aka Crank sensor). Used LED Testlight as followed and it was flashing constantly when cranking.

So following the troubleshoot chart, It found the ICM to be defective at this time. I have replaced this module and vehicle still will not start. and conditions as still the same.

So my next thought is testing the PIP another way to verify it is good before I replace it.

Also I checked the distributor and confirmed the rotor is spinning normally when cranking.

Any help will be greatly appreciated in this situation! Thank you in advance!

If needed I can perform tests again with video to help you guys.

 
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miesk5

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yo Swift,

WELCOME!

Hall Effect (Profile Ignition Pick-up (PIP) Signal, Stator, RPM)

Misfiring, Rough Idle, Surge, & Ping-Knock Symptoms, due to a Magnetized Shutter Wheel, (Bronco & all Fords w/EEC IV & TFI); "...Inside the TFI distributor is a Hall-Effect sensor that provides an RPM and POSITION signal to the Ignition module and ECM for fuel and ignition control. Mounted to the distributor shaft is a "shutter-wheel" that passes through the Hall-Effect sensor. The slots or windows cut in the shutter-wheel are what makes the Hall-Effect sensor switch on/off to create the signal it sends out. The shutter-wheel is supposed to be a piece of "dead" steel but can become magnetized. A magnetized wheel can cause very erratic operation of the Hall-Effect and resulting erratic output signal. The Test: There are a couple of ways to check for this condition. One is to simply pull off the distributor cap and see if something steel will "stick" to the shutter-wheel. Make sure that whatever you are using to check the wheel with isn't magnetized itself. A more accurate method would be to watch the wave-form on the "SPOUT" wire with a Vantage or Lab-Scope. The SPOUT is the wire with the connector in it that you unplug to set ignition timing. Monitor the wave-pattern on the SPOUT with the timing-connector in. If there is anything erratic about the wave-form, unplug the timing connector and re-check the wave-form. If the pattern "cleans up" all of a sudden, chances are good that you have a magnetized shutter-wheel. The Fix: Most shutter-wheels can be removed from the distributor shaft with a couple of screws. Everybody seems to have their own way of de-magnetizing the wheels but good success has been had with bulk audio-tape erasers or by placing the wheel in an engine parts cleaning oven and baking it. That last one sounds weird but it works..."

Source: by snapon.com via archive.org

=======

PIP Troubleshooting Worksheet; miesk5 Note; this is the Grey Module

Source: by SeattleFSB (Seattle FSB) at

http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/832321

Tester Overview, pic & TIPs; "...This is a TFI tester. Don’t expect a wonder tool for diagnosis of intermittent TFI problems. This tool will only show a completely failed module or a TFI that will start a vehicle. I haven’t seen any TFI testers that will show a partly failed or intermediate problem. You connect a 9-volt battery and the TFI in question. Then you touch the yellow clip to the Stator pins. An LED will come on if it’s a “good” TFI and no light if it’s failed. A better test is to check the fuel pump relay when cranking the engine over. Not the 2 second run after the key is turned on, but while cranking the engine. If the fuel pump relay kicks on when cranking, the TFI & Hall Effect (Profile Ignition Pick-up (PIP) Signal, Stator, RPM) are good..."

Source: by Ryan M (Fireguy50) at http://web.archive.org/web/20110707142544/http://www.fordfuelinjection.com/?p=12

Testing, Overview & Diagrams; "...The Thick Film Integrated (TFI-IV) ignition system uses a camshaft driven distributor with no centrifugal or vacuum advance. The distributor has a diecast base, incorporating a Hall effect stator assembly. The TFI-IV system module is mounted on the distributor base, it has 6 pins and uses an E-Core ignition coil, named after the shape of the laminations making up the core. The TFI-IV module supplies voltage to the Profile Ignition Pick-up (PIP) sensor, which sends the crankshaft position information to the TFI-IV module. The TFI-IV module then sends this information to the EEC-IV module, which determines the spark timing and sends an electronic signal to the TFI-IV ignition module to turn off the coil and produce a spark to fire the spark plug. The operation of the universal distributor is accomplished through the Hall effect stator assembly, causing the ignition coil to be switched off and on by the EEC-IV computer and TFI-IV modules. The vane switch is an encapsulated package consisting of a Hall sensor on one side and a permanent magnet on the other side. A rotary vane cup, made of ferrous metal, is used to trigger the Hall effect switch. When the window of the vane cup is between the magnet and the Hall effect device, a magnetic flux field is completed from the magnet through the Hall effect device back to the magnet. As the vane passes through the opening, the flux lines are shunted through the vane and back to the magnet. A voltage is produced while the vane passes through the opening. When the vane clears the opening, the window causes the signal to go to 0 volts. The signal is then used by the EEC-IV system for crankshaft position sensing and the computation of the desired spark advance based on the engine demand and calibration. The voltage distribution is accomplished through a conventional rotor, cap and ignition wires. GENERAL TESTING - Spark Plug Wire Resistance Whenever the high tension wires are removed from the plugs, coil, or distributor, silicone grease must be applied to the boot before reconnection. Use a clean small screwdriver blade to coat the entire interior surface with Ford silicone grease D7AZ-19A331-A, Dow Corning #111, or General Electric G-627. Use spark plug wire removal pliers, or grasp firmly at the boot (not the wire itself) and remove the wires from the plugs, then remove the distributor cap. Measure the resistance through the distributor cap at that end. Resistance on these wires must not exceed 5,000 ohms per foot. Do not pierce any ignition wire for any reason. Measure only from the two ends. Adjustments - The air gap between the armature and magnetic pick-up coil in the distributor is not adjustable, nor are there any adjustment for the amplifier module. Inoperative components are simply replaced. Any attempt to connect components outside the vehicle may result in component failure. - TROUBLESHOOTING THE TFI-IV SYSTEM; After performing any test which requires piercing a wire with a straight pin, remove the straight pin and seal the holes in the wire with silicone sealer. Wiring Harness - Disconnect the wiring harness connector from the TFI module; the connector tabs must be PUSHED to disengage the connector. Inspect the connector for damage, dirt, and corrosion. Attach the negative lead of a voltmeter to the base of the distributor. Attach the other voltmeter lead to a small straight pin. With the ignition switch in the RUN position, insert the straight pin into the No. 1 terminal of the TFI module connector. Note the voltage reading. With the ignition switch in the RUN position, move the straight pin to the No. 2 connector terminal. Again, note the voltage reading. Move the straight pin to the No. 3 connector terminal, then turn the ignition switch to the START position. Note the voltage reading then turn the ignition OFF . The voltage readings should all be at least 90 percent of the available battery voltage. If the readings are okay, proceed to the Stator Assembly and Module test. If any reading is less than 90 percent of the battery voltage, inspect the wiring, connectors, and/or ignition switch for defects. if the voltage is low only at the No. 1 terminal, proceed to the ignition coil primary voltage test. Stator Assembly and Module - Remove the distributor from the engine. Remove the TFI module from the distributor. Inspect the distributor terminals, ground ****** and stator wiring for damage. Repair as necessary. Measure the resistance of the stator assembly, using an ohmmeter. If the ohmmeter reading is 800-975 ohms, the stator is okay, but the TFI module must be replaced. If the ohmmeter reading is less than 800 ohms or more than 975 ohms; the TFI module is okay, but the stator module must be replaced. Repair as necessary and install the TFI module and the distributor. - Primary Circuit Continuity; This test is performed in the same manner as the previous Wiring Harness test, but only the No. 1 terminal conductor is tested (ignition switch in Run position). If the voltage is less than 90 percent of the available battery voltage, proceed to the coil primary voltage test; rotary armature has open areas called windows and tabs called vanes..." miesk5 NOTE; stator is a Hall Effect device, which uses a magnetic field. It sits under the distributor cap and picks up a signal from a wheel with teeth. (miesk5 NOTE; this wheel is a rotary armature that has open areas called windows and tabs, called vanes). The wheel has the same number of teeth as cylinders in the engine and moves at the same speed as the distributor and camshaft. If you have a V8 then the wheel has eight teeth; seven teeth are the same and one tooth is smaller to identify cylinder #1. As the wheel spins with the distributor is breaks the magnetic field of the hall devise generating a sine wave. This sine wave is called the raw Profile Ignition Pickup (PIP) signal and indicates the engine status at 10deg. BTDC. Now some people think the TFI is responsible for this, but that is incorrect; the PIP signal passes thru the TFI unaltered to the computer.(by Ryan M)

Source: by Chilton via http://web.archive.org/web/20130429122836/http://www.autozone.com/autozone/repairinfo/repairguide/repairGuideContent.jsp?pageId=0996b43f8038ebec

Also, the CM should be gray and a Motorcraft or WELLS unit; too many defective ICMs are being sold.

 
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SwiftBronco

SwiftBronco

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Good news is I almost got it fired up. the New new ICM fixed it (Cheap NAPA brand is useless), So I went and bought a Motorcraft and it works!. Now I think my injectors are partially clogged since I got it to start with some starter fluid (Was sitting for atleast 5-6 months). but I have to wait for tomorrow to charge the battery before attempting to start it again (Doh!).Thank you for the pile of info there Miesk5!

 

miesk5

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yo,

yw!

Good job!

A few quick checks;

check Fuel Pressure;

KEY ON ENGINE OFF 35-45 PSI

ENGINE RUNNING 28-45 PSI

Maximum fuel pressure is obtainable at WOT or the vacuum hose removed from the fuel pressure regulator.

If fuel lines/systems have been drained or evacuated, it may take up to 15 seconds to obtain the pressure specified.

Note: Grounding the FP lead at the DLC will allow the pump to run continuously with the ignition switch on.

Pull the fuel pressure regulator's vacuum line; should Not be any gas or gas aroma in the vacuum line[ if any replace the FPR

Check fuel filter if pressure is low.

Fuel Injector Test; "...With eveything connected normally & the key in RUN, pierce the OTHER wire (not the Red one) on any ONE injector & tap it BRIEFLY to ground. Do you hear half the injectors click open & then closed? Put a finger on each one to feel which ones are working. If some of them don't open, repeat the test, holding the ground SLIGHTLY longer each time, but never more than 3 sec continuously...Repeat this for the 2nd bank of injectors (just one with a different color wire)..."

Source: by Steve at Ford Bronco Zone Forums

http://broncozone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=17991

Fuel Injector Testing & Servicing, Chapter 11, from Ford Fuel Injection and Electronic Engine Control: How to Understand, Service and Modify, 1988-1993

Source: by Charles O. Probst via http://web.archive.org/web/20130530140512/http://www.yunost.ru/docs/Ford-injectors-book/Part11/Part11.pdf

page 241 and on

 

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