Clutch Shudder Help!!!!

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fe-horse

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Would any of you be able the help me solve my Bronco from shuddering? I have a 1972 Bronco and the OEM clutch just seems to not handle the torque the motor puts out...

The problem, you can release the clutch while the Bronco is idling and there

 

S_bolt19

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Mike, does it do the shudder when changing from 1st to 2nd or 2nd to 3rd? If it doesn't and you only get the shudder taking off in 1st gear, then you have what is called axle wrap. The symptoms you are describing are exactly what I had a couple of years ago. The cause of this can be a couple of different things. First, I would check to see if the u-bolts holding the spring packs on the axle are tight. Make sure those are nice and tight because if they aren't, then you will get that. Second, check the spring perches, if they have any "rounding" on the ends of them, this too will cause the problem. Lastly, are the rear springs original? If they are then they are probably worn out and in combination with the power that is probably being developed with your engine, they are letting the "axle wrap". What actually is the issue is that the pinion gear inside the differential is "climbing" the ring gear rather than spinning with it. What this then does is forces the entire axle to wrap itsself around. The easy fix is to get a new set of springs. Tired, worn out springs will bend into an "S" shap during initial take off and it in turn lets that pinion gear climb, thus causing the axle wrap and the initial shuddering. Once you are up to speed, it doesn't do it because the gears are already moving.

When I had my problem, I had just rebuilt my engine and put fuel injection on. That is when my problem started, I put on a new set of springs and the issue was solved....immediatly and I haven't had any hopping or shuddering since. Let me know if that sounds like your issue, because it is fairly common when the old springs are still on a vehicle and a fresh engine is put in.

 
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fe-horse

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Mike, does it do the shudder when changing from 1st to 2nd or 2nd to 3rd? If it doesn't and you only get the shudder taking off in 1st gear, then you have what is called axle wrap. The symptoms you are describing are exactly what I had a couple of years ago. The cause of this can be a couple of different things. First, I would check to see if the u-bolts holding the spring packs on the axle are tight. Make sure those are nice and tight because if they aren't, then you will get that. Second, check the spring perches, if they have any "rounding" on the ends of them, this too will cause the problem. Lastly, are the rear springs original? If they are then they are probably worn out and in combination with the power that is probably being developed with your engine, they are letting the "axle wrap". What actually is the issue is that the pinion gear inside the differential is "climbing" the ring gear rather than spinning with it. What this then does is forces the entire axle to wrap itsself around. The easy fix is to get a new set of springs. Tired, worn out springs will bend into an "S" shap during initial take off and it in turn lets that pinion gear climb, thus causing the axle wrap and the initial shuddering. Once you are up to speed, it doesn't do it because the gears are already moving.
When I had my problem, I had just rebuilt my engine and put fuel injection on. That is when my problem started, I put on a new set of springs and the issue was solved....immediatly and I haven't had any hopping or shuddering since. Let me know if that sounds like your issue, because it is fairly common when the old springs are still on a vehicle and a fresh engine is put in.
 
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fe-horse

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This sounds like the problem as I only get the shudder in first gear. I have a 4" lift on the Bronco and how would I know if the springs are bad other then the shudder?

Thank you for all suggestions,

Mike

 

Broncobill78

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This sounds like the problem as I only get the shudder in first gear. I have a 4" lift on the Bronco and how would I know if the springs are bad other then the shudder?
Thank you for all suggestions,

Mike
The lift may be the problem. How is the rear lifted ? With a new springpack or 4" blocks ? When you use lift blocks the increased distance from the springpack to the axle gives the U-bolts an added lever affect and they can very frequently force the nuts to back off. This alone can cause the problem but *also* if you don't catch it in time the back-and-forth rocking of the block across the spring pad will round it off & BOTH of these issues can cause the aforementioned axle wrap. Check to be sure the U-bolts are *tight* and that the spring pads haven't started to round off. The original advise was 100% correct.

If the original worn springs were boosted up using lift blocks then you very likely have the cause of your problem right there. You can tighten it all down but a new re-arched springpack is probably the best way to fix the problem for good.

 
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fe-horse

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Another piece of the puzzle on my shudder problem. The Bronco was put on floor jacks and which would take the load off the suspension. The Bronco was put in first gear and we let out the clutch with some throttle and the Bronco still had the shudder.

Thanks again to all suggestions,

Mike

 

mustangtoby

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check all of your mounts ( motor, tranny, transfer). I had a two wheel drive pickup and the transmission mount was bad. the shudder was so bad stuff would fall off of the dash!

 

S_bolt19

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Lifting it off the ground and taking the load out of the equation only confirms that you have axle wrap. You said that you have a 4" lift, as BB78 asked, do you have lifted springs or lift blocks? If you have lift blocks, take them out and throw them away. Any lift over 2" with blocks is asking for trouble....it WILL fail you at some point. If it is an add-a-leaf or blocks then I would get a new set of springs. End of story. If your springs are fairly new (less than 5 years), check the spring perches and u-bolts. Make sure there is no wear on either and the bolts are tight. If the springs are over 5 years old, or you have never replaced them, I would replace them. If you do, I would look into the Cage leaf packs, they are a better ride and will flex better than any other spring set on the market. If you can't or don't want to go the Cage route, then I would go BC and then Wild Horses. Duff is over priced for their stuff in my opinion for what you get, and they are the same that Cage is, just the older version. The other thing is that you could get ahold of WH and order their "wrap trap", but it is a weld on application that will stop the axle wrap. It is a brace that is mounted between the frame rails & also on the top of the diff housing. But, if it were me, I would get a new set of springs first and then if the problem is still there, then the wrap trap.

So #1 - Check the u-bolts for tightness...#2 - Check the spring perches for rounding. If they are, replace them... #3 - Replace the springs... #4 - Order Wrap Trap from Wild Horses. That is what I would do, in that order.

 

Broncobill78

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Hey S Bolt, this is kinda OT for the thread but I thought maybe you'd know. I haven't been able to find anything from K-bar-S. They used to be in the same group of vendors that catered to the EB's and also carried a decent line of full-size accessories. Do you know if they're still around if they were bought out or just went belly-up ? I'm starting to look for info again since I started talking to my neighbor 2 houses up, he's got a pretty solid looking 77' that's sat in his driveway without moving for close to 5yrs because he's got too many toys already, so I'm hoping I can help him out & make his life easier by taking it off his hands.

 
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fe-horse

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Thanks for reminding me that I forgot to mention that I don't have the lift blocks and I'm using the springs for the lift. The both of you were right (B. Commander & S_bolt19) on the axle wrap, after crawling back up the Bronco, I found that the leaf spring perches were rounded way too much. The leaf spring isn't able to lay flat on the leaf perch and it looks like the springs are older then 5 years as suggested. I also noticed that the U bolts were not as tight as they should be either.

Looks as though, I

 

S_bolt19

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Hey S Bolt, this is kinda OT for the thread but I thought maybe you'd know. I haven't been able to find anything from K-bar-S....
K-Bar went out of business quite a while ago. If I remember right, it was 8-10 years ago. The last catalog that I have of theirs is a 96 catalog. They didn't sell near the product that BC, WH, Tom's or Duffs did at the time, nor were they that competitive with their prices, on EB stuff. As for the big Bronco stuff they sold, I can't really say if they were or weren't in the ballpark or not. The only other good BB place that I know of would definatly have to be JBG. As for you buying parts for an EB, I would look at BC in Texas. Chuck is one of the best innovators in new product and has forgotten more that most people know about EBs. Great guy and great people. Duff is closer to you in Knoxville, TN, but I honestly think they are overpriced. You are paying a lot more for their stuff because it says "James Duff Enterprises" on the label. Just my .02....hope that helps you out on that 77...post pix if you end up getting it.

 

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